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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

You can't pay your fares with tokens on the new streetcars anymore. You have to pay cash, use PRESTO, or carry a Metropass. Outside of the streetcar system you can still pay with tokens, but you still can't use PRESTO everywhere. Tokens and Metropass will soon be phased out and replaced with PRESTO. The TTC has done a spectacularly terrible job at communicating this.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
You can't pay your fares with tokens on the new streetcars anymore. You have to pay cash, use PRESTO, or carry a Metropass. Outside of the streetcar system you can still pay with tokens, but you still can't use PRESTO everywhere. Tokens and Metropass will soon be phased out and replaced with PRESTO. The TTC has done a spectacularly terrible job at communicating this.
Click to expand...

That's incorrect. Each LFLRV has two fare payment machines that most definitely accept tokens, and many 509/510 stops have one such machine on the stop platform as well; again, they take tokens.

It's not a "spectacularly terrible job at communicating this" when you get on the streetcar and the same machine that takes cash, credit, and debit has a big button on the touchscreen labelled "token" with a picture of one.

SQPYATT said:
Hi everyone, my first post! I was on the 510 today with my token, but no fare box in sight.. ended up taking the subway home for free. Are there no boxes for tokens or am I missing something?
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Sorry, so you can't find a "fare box" and just assume you're entitled to a free ride? There wasn't a driver or a single other customer to ask? You didn't try looking in the streetcar and see the two large fare payment machines that take cash, tokens, debit, and credit? You didn't notice a single person get on and use such a machine the entire time you were aboard? Really?
 
Megaton327 said:
Sorry, so you can't find a "fare box" and just assume you're entitled to a free ride? There wasn't a driver or a single other customer to ask? You didn't try looking in the streetcar and see the two large fare payment machines that take cash, tokens, debit, and credit? You didn't notice a single person get on and use such a machine the entire time you were aboard? Really?
Click to expand...
A lot of people made this assumption when the new streetcars came out. Tourists still do cause they never used a POP system where the fare machine is inside the vehicle. Usually in North America, they are at the stop. It's a pretty common sight and on a stuffed streetcar, you don't see people paying at the machines.

It sucks when they get caught at Spadina station. A $235 ticket is not a friendly welcome for tourists. The TTC doesn't communicate this very well. They should consider large signs or even decals on streetcar shelters at every stop especially along QQ.
 
@SQPYATT

Good thing you didn't reveal your identity. Bragging that you evaded paying a transit fare on a public website can lead to trouble. TTC staff members, especially Public Relations Manager Brad Ross, do read this website. Ignorance of a law is not an excuse to break it.

You should consider yourself lucky, because if TTC staff were to catch you, your bank account would be $500 lighter and you may end up imprisoned for a few days and you may receive a criminal record.
 
There was talk at the Leslie Barns today that they are expecting to see a car every 2 weeks starting with 4421. Will we see 4422 come June 8??

4421 was in normal setup inside the Barns when I saw it. 4420 was outside on display with 4419, 4413 and 4406 giving yard tours. 4401 was in the paint booth on display and no one is sure when it will be scrap with a new one built to replace it.

TTC is using 8 8 hours days to burn the car in with most of the testing been done on St Clair and out in Long Branch according comments given to visitors, when asked the question. They try to stay away from peak service and like doing testing late at night.
 
dowlingm said:
I wonder how much TTC will charge for PCC charters to make the cost of Primoving them back :D
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Well to be fair most of even the most progressive and advanced cities still havnt gotten to this yet. Let's just settle on getting our network up to the world standard first before we look to what is at this moment an exotic technology now
 
Sorry for three consecutive posts but:

Drum118: why scrap 4401? Wouldn't it be better for TTC to simply buy the title to it at a reasonable fee and make it a non-revenue car for training/track and catenary testing/new onboard equipment and mods/running around with an ice cutter/Easter parade etc.? Bring back 4402 too if that is doomed so that it can perform similar mods when some idiot driver puts 4401 in the shop.

Edit: an alternative use would be for BBD to tweak 4401 or 4402 with a view to shipping it to Philly as a demonstrator...
 
dowlingm said:
Sorry for three consecutive posts but:

Drum118: why scrap 4401? Wouldn't it be better for TTC to simply buy the title to it at a reasonable fee and make it a non-revenue car for training/track and catenary testing/new onboard equipment and mods/running around with an ice cutter/Easter parade etc.? Bring back 4402 too if that is doomed so that it can perform similar mods when some idiot driver puts 4401 in the shop.

Edit: an alternative use would be for BBD to tweak 4401 or 4402 with a view to shipping it to Philly as a demonstrator...
Click to expand...
They didn't exactly scrapped everything. I heard that they took some of the parts like the trunks and stuck it on an existing streetcar.

So they aren't going to mod 4401, there is no rush to send it back unless they really want that parts off it.
 
W. K. Lis said:
In the original CLRV mockup, the seating was diagonally.
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Ah, cool. Haven't seen that image before. Looks like it has doors on both sides too. Source? Single seating is definitely optimal, which is why I'll always love the CLRVs that have the single row going all the way to the back. So much easier to move around, and a very wise decision the TTC made with that change. As an able-bodied rider, I think I'll always prefer them over the Outlooks.

On the one hand it's too bad these vehicles didn't sell well in other cities. But on the other it's cool that it's quintessentially TO's streetcar - making its presence known in millions of postcard TO images for the last 30 years (and probably the next 10).
 
44 North said:
Ah, cool. Haven't seen that image before. Looks like it has doors on both sides too. Source? Single seating is definitely optimal, which is why I'll always love the CLRVs that have the single row going all the way to the back. So much easier to move around, and a very wise decision the TTC made with that change. As an able-bodied rider, I think I'll always prefer them over the Outlooks.

On the one hand it's too bad these vehicles didn't sell well in other cities. But on the other it's cool that it's quintessentially TO's streetcar - making its presence known in millions of postcard TO images for the last 30 years (and probably the next 10).
Click to expand...

Probably, was a mockup for the Scarborough rapid transit line (high platforms), that was to use the CLRV's as the vehicles, but with doors on both sides (and no steps).
 
dowlingm said:
Sorry for three consecutive posts but:

Drum118: why scrap 4401? Wouldn't it be better for TTC to simply buy the title to it at a reasonable fee and make it a non-revenue car for training/track and catenary testing/new onboard equipment and mods/running around with an ice cutter/Easter parade etc.? Bring back 4402 too if that is doomed so that it can perform similar mods when some idiot driver puts 4401 in the shop.

Edit: an alternative use would be for BBD to tweak 4401 or 4402 with a view to shipping it to Philly as a demonstrator...
Click to expand...

Is it even a TTC car? I believe it still belongs to Bombardier, has never been signed off or paid for. TTC isn't about to pay the full fare for a car that doesn't meet its specs. I agree that it and 4402 ought to be in service, ramp or not. So long as there are ALRV/CLRV cars in service the lack of a ramp should not be a barrier to using these cars given how stretched the fleet is. Seems to me Bombardier could lease these two to TTC for a very nominal rate, considering how badly they have messed up over all. A goodwill gesture.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Is it even a TTC car? I believe it still belongs to Bombardier, has never been signed off or paid for. TTC isn't about to pay the full fare for a car that doesn't meet its specs.
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(emphasis added)

I thought "wouldn't it be better for TTC to simply buy the title to it at a reasonable fee" would have covered the entirety of your inquiries but I guess not. Here, "fee" implied something more than scrap but nowhere near a revenue car. If 4401/2 are being / to be stripped and some components transferred to otherwise "new" cars then the suggestion is moot.
 
dowlingm said:
(emphasis added)

I thought "wouldn't it be better for TTC to simply buy the title to it at a reasonable fee" would have covered the entirety of your inquiries but I guess not. Here, "fee" implied something more than scrap but nowhere near a revenue car. If 4401/2 are being / to be stripped and some components transferred to otherwise "new" cars then the suggestion is moot.
Click to expand...

Sorry - I probably needed another cup of coffee before I wrote that. The leasing (or just borrowing for free) idea is where I was going in my head. Makes no sense for TTC to buy even at scrap value, Bombardier should end up with the problem in the end.

A further option (since I'm still having Avro Arrow angst about scrapping them at all) is to donate one or both to the Rockwood museum, and then for TTC to lease them from Rockwood for a few years. Rockwood could make a small amount of money off the deal, which could include an amount banked for their future transport to the museum site.

As you can tell, I'm not concerned one whit about what it might cost Bombardier to deal with this. It makes no sense for these cars to be sidelined when they could provide some (albeit less than intended) productive use for the next few years, while the TTC fleet situation is so bad.

- Paul
 
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