Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[DSC]

I think the TTC's new map of Presto stations should asterisk those with multiple entrances not all of which are enabled, e.g. King Station Commerce Court.

I understood that in due course ALL entrances would have Presto, why do you seem not to think so? I thought this would occur when the station(s) get the new fare gates.

 

[dowlingm]

I understood that in due course ALL entrances would have Presto, why do you seem not to think so? I thought this would occur when the station(s) get the new fare gates.

Yes, but they don't have them now. It's a 5 minute walk from Commerce Court (if you rock up expecting a reader and don't find one) and Scotia Plaza entrance, and that if you know the way. As stations become all-entrance Prestoed, then the asterisk could be removed.

 

[steveintoronto]

Steve Munro noted that in a post-paper transfer world, a person making a three leg trip where the middle one involves an inoperative Presto vehicle may be charged for two trips, since the tap for the third leg would see the trip as new and not a transfer from the second.

Interesting thread, just reading some of the comments, relate to them all, but you raise a very good point. Here's what happens when one takes the initiative to *travel more directly* on GO.

It's been five months since this last happened, and every time I phone in a complaint on it, they correct it, and the spiel every time is (gist) "This shouldn't happen, we'll inform the Presto people to fix it":
I used to live in Guelph for five years, moved back to TO now, but to get to Mimico from Guelph, rather than transferring to the (21H?) bus at Square One from the 29 bus, I'd stay on the 29 to Cooksville station, tap off, and then tap on the Mi-Way express down to Port Credit,( extra 85c), tap-on on the GO train and get off at Mimico. Unless now fixed, I'd get charged *two fares* on GO, since the connection through on Mi-Way wasn't counted as such *even though it is vastly more direct* than going to Union on the 21 magical mystery tour (it goes all over the place) and taking a train back westward. I ended up just buying paper tickets on my Presto card to avoid the hassle of correcting them every time.

Using the system like that should be rewarded, not punished.

Same happened if I was returning to Guelph from Burlington. Hop on GO train to (Oakville?), took bus up to Milton GO, road my bike the two miles or so to Milton Park and Ride to get on the 29 to Guelph....and charged two fares! Always got it straightened out by being on the phone for over half an hour each time (almost always had to ask for a supervisor, the front line workers don't understand the situation) only to be apologized to and get a credit.

In all fairness, Presto has been a lot better for me lately, but some 'intelligent systems' are pretty dumb, (usually human problem of lack of algorithm acumen) especially when GO is touting doing exactly what I do: Take a more direct path, even if I pay a co-fare to do it. I get the awful feeling that further integration with the TTC is not going to go smoothly at all.

 

[smuncky]

http://ttc.ca/News/2016/May/05-02-16.jsp

Some buses are now Presto enabled today.
Article says 19, and doesn't mention any specific routes. (I'm aware that any bus could have it - but I hoped that it would at least be assigned to buses on specific routes asit rolled out - say the Express bus routes operating from Kipling)
Unless I'm mistaken, it's buses from Queensway garage first.


"A PRESTO-sign will be displayed on buses that have PRESTO readers so customers know if their bus is equipped with PRESTO."
Anyone seen one live yet?

Posted by TTC planning:

https://twitter.com/TTCplanning/status/727195639730294785

 

[steveintoronto]

I log into my Presto card account regularly now to find out whether I got overcharged on a trip. It appears that the TTC has quietly adopted Montreal-style rules for Presto, which means:

- After initial tap, all travel is included for two hours, except:
- Tapping back on to the same surface route
- Re-entering the rapid transit system

Ahhhh! I've been doing that for a while, since that's the way many US operators do it, fare card or cash. You get a transfer good for two hours, after which you can 'refresh it' for a nominal charge.

So I usually do a loop downtown on the subway, and back again on a streetcar after getting what I need at, say, Kensington Market. (Cheese shops can't be beat.)(and pick-up electronic components on College too). I somehow intuitively sensed that it would be a default in the algorithms to allow that.

Buying time instead of direction makes it so much easier for everyone concerned.

 

[rbt]

I understood that in due course ALL entrances would have Presto, why do you seem not to think so? I thought this would occur when the station(s) get the new fare gates.

Sherbourne's automated entrance doesn't seem to take anything but Presto now according to news reports. I've not looked yet.

 

[nfitz]

Sherbourne's automated entrance doesn't seem to take anything but Presto now.

None of the new devices take Metropasses? That surprises me, given that 2 of the 8 new machines at Main take Metropasses.

 

[Megaton327]

None of the new devices take Metropasses? That surprises me, given that 2 of the 8 new machines at Main take Metropasses.

A picture the TTC posted of Wellesley also has 2 out of some larger number of faregates taking Metropasses. While not impossible I find it extremely unlikely that the TTC would completely reject passes at any entrance until they discontinue passes completely...probably a mistake from the media, we all know how accurate their TTC-related panic articles are (looking at you, Metro re: island stops).

Steve Munro noted that in a post-paper transfer world, a person making a three leg trip where the middle one involves an inoperative Presto vehicle may be charged for two trips, since the tap for the third leg would see the trip as new and not a transfer from the second.

In addition to the technicalities of the system right now, keep in mind the TTC is likely to move to a full, universal 2-hour timed transfer at some point in the coming years. Metrolinx fare integration might have many negatives but it seems very likely they'll push this positive change on the city.

 

[rbt]

None of the new devices take Metropasses? That surprises me, given that 2 of the 8 new machines at Main take Metropasses.

The automatic (unmanned) entrance at Sherbourne isn't particularly large. The press release used wording indicating non-Presto people would have to walk around to the main entrance.

My point in response to the statement "I understood that in due course ALL entrances would have Presto, ..." is that not only will all entrances have Presto but that other media are already being removed from secondary entrances.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Pretty sure i'll be going through Sherbourne on Thursday - I'll try to remember to take a look and see if the secondary entrance is presto only.

 

[nfitz]

If I remember correctly, the Sherbourne secondary entrance had 2 full-height turnstiles. There must be room for two new turnstiles. I can't imagine how many complaints there will be if one isn't taking Metropasses. Or if there isn't an operator there letting people through.

Quite frankly, if it was me there, and I had a Metropass, I'd be jumping the turnstile. Which might be easier than last time I was there, carrying an 80-lb child through ...

 

[Steve X]

If I remember correctly, the Sherbourne secondary entrance had 2 full-height turnstiles. There must be room for two new turnstiles. I can't imagine how many complaints there will be if one isn't taking Metropasses. Or if there isn't an operator there letting people through.

Quite frankly, if it was me there, and I had a Metropass, I'd be jumping the turnstile. Which might be easier than last time I was there, carrying an 80-lb child through ...

But I thought they are installing full height fare gates so they'll remain automated but bikes/strollers can get through. I don't remember where I read this.

If there isn't someone there, I think they'll just leave it open so people with metropass can get through.

 

[nfitz]

But I thought they are installing full height fare gates so they'll remain automated but bikes/strollers can get through. I don't remember where I read this.

I could be wrong, but I thought all the new gates, system-wide, were the same height, and we'd seen the end of full-height turnstiles.

 

[TransitBart]

Folks. If I have understood all that I have read properly, here is my take.

1. Faregates replace turnstiles. Everywhere (all stations) ultimately.
2. Exit only - full-height turnstiles are gone and all "doors" will be both entrances and exits. What other first world system has "exit" only gangways?
3. When faregates are installed, a pair or some number proportionate to traffic in that station's primary entrance will retain legacy Metropass "swipe" capacity.
4. Metropasses will bite the dust in the next twelve months.
5. Presto cards will gain the "Metropass" loyalty discount/pass capability.
5. The remaining Metropass faregates will be converted to Presto. Till then, they'll be exit only Presto gates.
6. This will take time. There are seventy stations and hundreds of legacy turnstiles to rip out and replace. We have waited this long...

 

[nfitz]

Yes, that sounds about right. Other than the reports today that at the secondary Sherbourne entrance, all the new turnstiles are Presto, with no Metropass. But perhaps that's as simple as they still need to swap over the reader.