TTC: Budgeting, Fares and Financials

[Filip]

Looking at page 20 of the presentation, it's already $3 in Durham, and $3.40 on YRT. So wouldn't even be the highest in the GTA, let alone Canada.

The currently multiplier (number of tokens per cost of pass) is 50.5. When they first introduced it in 1980 it was 52. And it oscilated from 51.5 to 53 until David Miller was Mayor, and briefly dropped to about 48, before coming up to 50.5, which is still lower than it was traditionally.

And if you take the federal tax credit into account it's only 43. If you buy an annual pass instead of a monthly pass (and take the tax credit into account) it's only 39.4.

Given funding cuts to TTC from both Ontario and the federal government, how then do you suggest they fund it?

The data is all online at http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/Information & Technology/Open Data/Data Sets/Assets/Files/1985-2014 Analysis of ridership.xlsx

It's the opposite actually. Pass usage (monthly & weekly, adult/post-secondary) has become an ever greater percentage of total payments. over the years, with little increase to cash, despite the lack of increase.

View attachment 54952

You can see how cash usage plummeted when they increase cash from $1.30 to $2 in 1992 (tokens went from $1.07 to $1.30).

In 2005 the multiplier for tokens changes from 52 to 49.4,and that seems to have increased pass usage, followed by the tax credit in 2006.

I haven't broken out Presto separately, but it was 0% until 2011, then 0.3%, 1.0%, 1.9% and 2.3%. Token usage has fallen correspondingly.

It's hard to argue that the passes are too expensive relative to tokens/cash when relative pass usage has increased for 19 years in a row!

Ok.. So the TTC didn't know how to run itself for over 20 years... What's new?

A monthly pass is supposed to be steeply discounted on a single fare basis. Where to even begin? First of all there are 22 working days in a month, so 44 should be the multiplier, on the MAXIMUM end.

That's how you encourage people to use transit and not drive into the city. Those drivers are commuters and not regular folks who rely on transit all day.

There's so much fat to cut from the TTC, but nobody's looking at their benefits/salaries/pensions. That's where the gravy train is. Of course you can keep asking for more when your employer can't go bankrupt.

 

[nfitz]

Ok.. So the TTC didn't know how to run itself for over 20 years... What's new?

Doesn't know how to run itself? It's pretty clear from that presentation, that TTC gets more out of it's $ than most other agencies. And also get's less funding per passenger than ANY other agency listed.

A monthly pass is supposed to be steeply discounted on a single fare basis. Where to even begin? First of all there are 22 working days in a month, so 44 should be the multiplier, on the MAXIMUM end.

Why? TTC says the average pass holder takes 70 rides a month. I bet you that's higher than York or Mississauga. The big question then, is where does this extra money come from?

There's so much fat to cut from the TTC ...

Fat? Is this a joke? If they are running the most efficient transit operating relatives to comparable agencies, doesn't that imply there's little fat? Surely that they've been running below industry-average spare ratios for years, resulting in above industry-average failure rates and missing runs indicates there needs to be a little more fat. Unless you don't care about customer service ...

 

[Filip]

It's the salaries and benefits - not the operations themselves (those are as lean as can be).

We've all heard of the clerks who earn 6 figures and the guy snoozing in the collections box earning the same amount... That's not right. Especially when the rest of the city has an average wage of under 40k.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

It's the salaries and benefits - not the operations themselves (those are as lean as can be).

We've all heard of the clerks who earn 6 figures and the guy snoozing in the collections box earning the same amount... That's not right. Especially when the rest of the city has an average wage of under 40k.

Sure they make a lot when they work hundreds of hours of overtime, which saves on hiring additional staff.

 

[nfitz]

It's the salaries and benefits - not the operations themselves (those are as lean as can be).

Even if true - nothing can be done about that now that our racist wife-beating right-wing mayor protected the union by making them an essential service.

We've all heard of the clerks who earn 6 figures and the guy snoozing in the collections box earning the same amount... That's not right.

Where do you get this stuff? You have to do massive overtime to be a clerk making 6 figures. The 2015 budget already eliminated much of that overtime, and the 2016 continues is. There are time, stuff happens, and you need people to work overtime. I don't see how there's much savings here.

And the guy snoozing in the collections box? Who was publicly shamed, apologized, explained he had some severe medical problems (which was why he was in a booth instead of a bus), went on medical leave (so then he gets the $ without any work) ... and quickly died. I'm rather disgusted that anyone would actually raise this as an example of gravy.

Shame on you!

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Keep raising the base fare... more incentive for me to ride my bike to work or drive on weekends.

Or maybe it's time to get serious about distance and time based fares. In London (UK) single zone fares are as low as £1.50 off-peak but a zone 1-3 peak fare (core and inner suburbs) would be more than double at £3.30.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

At what point will City Hall stop bleeding the TTC dry? They've already lowered taxes every year for almost a decade. At some point this has to stop.

 

[W. K. Lis]

No federal funds for transit operational budget, from the Conservatives. See link.

 

[rbt]

No federal funds for transit operational budget, from the Conservatives. See link.

That's for the best. $500M in articulated buses will grow ridership in Toronto substantially more than a 40 cent discount for 5 years.

Lowering fares without more space to stand is a pointless exercise. Certainly don't object to charities giving out passes to those who need them (and receiving government grants to do so) but the median downtown employee doesn't need a discount for their subway commute; they need more subway.

Smaller/rural cities could probably use operating subsidy (Vaughan, Barrie, etc.) as they have more equipment (sometimes sitting in the yard) than they have riders for. The largest 6 Canadian cities, however, need expansion money as they struggle to handle the riders they already have.

 

[salsa]

TTC board voted today to increase cash fare by 25 cents, increase cost of a token by 10 cents, and freeze metropass prices. Senior and student fares will remain unchanged until a fare equity report is done next year.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/23/ttc-board-expected-to-hike-toronto-transit-fares.html

 

[Amare]

And according to Tory, "fares should be adjusted every year". This guy is kidding himself, if he wasnt so focused on his ridiculous DumbTrack idea he would start banging on Kathleen's door and demanding for increased subsidies. That way Kathleen wouldnt be so focused on wasting $1 billion on power lines to nowhere, or payouts for unions negotiating with province.

Or better yet maybe he should actually increase the TTC's instead of being his regular two-faced self saying that "there is no money available", while at the same time increasing the police budget.

Its obvious that the fare increase is needed and fares cant stay frozen due to increased costs, but it's time to get to the root cause of the issue instead of saying "I believe fare increases each year should be the norm". Maybe it's time we toll drivers and increase the tolls yearly because "tolls should be adjusted every year". That's how ridiculous Tory sounds.

 

[nfitz]

And according to Tory, "fares should be adjusted every year". This guy is kidding himself ...

Why? Inflationary increases of a nickel or dime on a token fare every year seem reasonable. Giambrone proposed the same.

We had increases every year from 1980 to 1992. It was only when they suddenly raised the cash fare from $1.30 to $2.00 in 1992 (and tokens from $1.07 to $1.30), that suddenly there was a reluctance to raise it every year. Though we've had six annual increases since 2010.

 

[BurlOak]

I would assume many people buy token with cash - so they should round off the cost.

Maybe $3.25 cash fair, 5 tokens for $15 ($3.00) or 14 for $40 ($2.86)

 

[W. K. Lis]

Why? Inflationary increases of a nickel or dime on a token fare every year seem reasonable. Giambrone proposed the same.

We had increases every year from 1980 to 1992. It was only when they suddenly raised the cash fare from $1.30 to $2.00 in 1992 (and tokens from $1.07 to $1.30), that suddenly there was a reluctance to raise it every year. Though we've had six annual increases since 2010.

Don't forget about the 2% decrease that Tory demanded from the TTC. Didn't know there was a 2% deflation during this past year.

 

[muller877]

Don't forget about the 2% decrease that Tory demanded from the TTC. Didn't know there was a 2% deflation during this past year.

Seems like the TTC is following the Police in budgeting tactics. Let's ignore City Hall and give people what they want. Then they aren't the bad guys...the Mayor/City Hall as a whole have to look bad (and the TTC Commissioners look good politically).

If I was Mayor I'd reject the proposal in whole and send them back to do their job of balancing the budget...and if they don't, accept their resignations (a.k.a. firing them). If the Mayor doesn't put his foot down on these political games every board and agency will follow suit.