Yonge Street, North York Streetscape Improvements

[amnesiajune]

The ratepayers group directly southwest of Emerald Park condo ask for and gets many turn restrictions into the neighbourhood; the problem is drivers still break the rules because Police are almost never around to enforce them! Then waze compound issue by directing more drivers into these neighbourhoods.

Going westbound on Sheppard, there's no turn restrictions in the afternoon until you get to Pewter. For people going north on Yonge, there are no turn restrictions at all if they want to cut through the neighbourhood to Easton or Senlac.

The ratepayers' group asks for turn restrictions except when they might inconvenience themselves. Problem is, they don't own the roads - if they want loose turn restrictions that won't stop them from driving home and then going somewhere in the afternoon, everyone else is free to drive through their neighbourhood as well.

If you want an example of properly-done restrictions, look at the other side of Sheppard, where the residential neighbourhood is physically separated. It creates a long detour for a lot of people, but also prevents traffic from driving through those residential streets. If they wanted to do something similar, they could ask for the roads to be physically blocked like on the northwest corner of Mount Pleasant & St. Clair. Something like this:

But a solution like that only works if having fewer cars on their roads is more important to them than their own ability to drive in & out with ease.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

If you want an example of properly-done restrictions, look at the other side of Sheppard, where the residential neighbourhood is physically separated. It creates a long detour for a lot of people, but also prevents traffic from driving through those residential streets. If they wanted to do something similar, they could ask for the roads to be physically blocked like on the northwest corner of Mount Pleasant & St. Clair.

Your physical barriers through that neighbourhood southwest of Emerald Park won't jive with the City.
The reason why the neighbourhood north of Sheppard got those physical barriers blocking their streets from Beecroft Rd is
- Beecroft Rd is boundary of North York Centre Secondary Plan area
- blocks traffic infiltration from high density downtown North York
In other words, the only way for the neighbourhood southwest of Emerald Park to get these physically separated road features,... is to allow high density development to eat up the blocks on Yonge! Even then 2 roads will likely remain open (Poyntz & Florence) while other 3 become blocked off.

Since you mention physically blocking off small residential streets - via "dead-ending" or "looping-out", that cost money! Near high density development especially within North York Center Secondary Plan, developer charges for road would cover that cost these days under the City of Toronto (Beecroft Extension from Ellerslie to Finch, Doris south extension to Avondale)

Back in City of North York:
- Beecroft extension south of Sheppard in the early 1990s was via H&R Developments' Nestle Canada Building (phase 1 & 2)
- huge chunk of new Doris Ave was done in mid-1990s via Menkes Empress Walk development (allowing first residential condo towers on Yonge frontage) where old Doris Ave became Gladys Allision Place
- In late 1970s Beecroft Rd already existed between Sheppard to ParkHome Ave being extended to Ellerslie but all east-west side-streets intersect Beecroft - City of North York wanted to physically separate these east-west side-streets along western side of Beecroft Rd via dead-end or looping-out.
--- Can't get developer to pay because Beecroft is existing street & most development along Beecroft at that time was government buildings including North York Civic Centre
--- Homeowners on side-streets directly west of Beecroft between Sheppard & Ellerslie (except ParkHome Ave) were offered the chance to loop-out/dead-end their streets to prevent traffic infiltration from intensification in emerging downtown North York at the cost of City of North York increasing their property tax bill by 10% for 10-years to cover the cost - these house property owners gladly accepted the offer! "No Money Down, Just 10% Payment For 10 Years!" of course, it was Mayor Mel Lastman's idea!

 

[salsa]

In yesterday's council meeting, councillor Filion asked questions to city staff on the status of Reimagining Yonge (starting at 1:26:00).

As you may recall, the Transform Yonge option was preferred in the study, which would have added space for pedestrians and cyclists between Sheppard and Finch. Mayor John Tory opposed it back in 2018 and council sent it back for more study. A new Transform Yonge report will come in the fall, but in the meantime Filion successfully passed the following motion to get an interim solution installed.

 

[Northern Light]

This isn't directly on point, but covers the same area; so it seems apt to place it here.

Downtown North York, as it were, is getting its own BIA.

For some reason, being branded as Willowdale.

The report is heading to the next Economic and Community Development Ctte mtg on November 12th.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2020/ec/bgrd/backgroundfile-157908.pdf

From said report:

 

[Northern Light]

Its back!

Transform Yonge - Downtown North York; is the subject of a new report headed to the Dec 1st meeting of Infrastructure and Environment Ctte.

Staff have barely budged; most of the project still reads as going from six lanes to four, and adding cycle tracks along with wider sidewalks.

The only material adjustments are:

Keeping Yonge at six lanes btw Finch and Bishop.

Also agree to further expand (lengthen) the ring roads before narrowing Yonge.

Agenda Item History - 2020.IE18.1

The attached communications are weird; they are not about this project but about the Downtown Yonge project.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331252308869607426

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331254276535054343

 

[Amare]

It's amazing that it takes something as big as a pandemic to change this city's mindset on a relatively small issue such as this.

 

[asher__jo]

It's amazing that it takes something as big as a pandemic to change this city's mindset on a relatively small issue such as this.

Let's hope there's not a regression when a vaccine is distributed and things reopen fully.

 

[allengeorge]

Nothing's set yet. Staff have simply come back and said "This is our preferred option." The mayor hasn't bought in, Council hasn't ok'd it, and money hasn't been allocated. Heck - I'm not going to believe this until they're digging the road and are halfway through.

 

[11th]

Its back!

Transform Yonge - Downtown North York; is the subject of a new report headed to the Dec 1st meeting of Infrastructure and Environment Ctte.

Staff have barely budged; most of the project still reads as going from six lanes to four, and adding cycle tracks along with wider sidewalks.

The only material adjustments are:

Keeping Yonge at six lanes btw Finch and Bishop.

Also agree to further expand (lengthen) the ring roads before narrowing Yonge.

Agenda Item History - 2020.IE18.1

The attached communications are weird; they are not about this project but about the Downtown Yonge project.

Sounds good on paper, but they have made various changes to the rings roads to make them less of a by-pass for Yonge.
I think the original intent was for them to take motorized traffic away from Yonge, but then they've become more of local access roads and Yonge's remained the main route for all traffic.

 

[Northern Light]

Nothing's set yet. Staff have simply come back and said "This is our preferred option." The mayor hasn't bought in, Council hasn't ok'd it, and money hasn't been allocated. Heck - I'm not going to believe this until they're digging the road and are halfway through.

One is right to be cautious in their optimism.

But I'm rather hopeful.

I have a positive impression of the staff who are managing this file.

Its not as if this report couldn't have been delayed.......there's a long list of overdue reports at City Hall.

 

[allengeorge]

Public health chief, city staff back plan to put bike lanes on north Yonge Street

Condo-lined Yonge, from south of Sheppard Avenue to north of Finch Avenue, would get extra-wide sidewalks, more and safer pedestrian crossings and a l...

www.thestar.com

Tory said Tuesday he has not yet read the new reports and wants to talk to Filion and potentially de Villa, before deciding how he’ll vote at city council.

“This is not a project that is going to be under way in any way, shape or form for about six years, so we have some time to take a look at this report and consider it in the broader context,” the mayor said, adding he has shown on other issues his willingness to re-examine past positions.

Not really a glowing endorsement. Classic Mayor Tory: leading from behind.

 

[allengeorge]

I honestly think that all these streetscape improvements are being sold the wrong way. Instead of focusing on the health improvements we should emphasize the rise in neighbourhood business. Instead of the area being a funnel for downtown it can be a destination, and have more people stay and spend money there. That raises land values, makes businesses richer, increases the city’s GDP...

The same way we should market parking minimums as “giving people choice”, and making housing more affordable.

 

[Northern Light]

I honestly think that all these streetscape improvements are being sold the wrong way. Instead of focusing on the health improvements we should emphasize the rise in neighbourhood business. Instead of the area being a funnel for downtown it can be a destination, and have more people stay and spend money there. That raises land values, makes businesses richer, increases the city’s GDP...

The same way we should market parking minimums as “giving people choice”, and making housing more affordable.

I'm a proponent of this project; I also endorse selling ideas with whatever data is most effective.

But I would tend to disagree with you here.

The area is not short of developer interest.

The money is already flowing here.

This is already a high property value area.

Where you have 40-storey condo towers popping up like weeds, its difficult to suggest that a new streetscape will materially push this further.

I'd hasten to add, I don't think the locals would be happy if it did; that would just mean 55-storey condo towers.

Using the health argument here is strategic.

Its the same essential argument as the Danforth/Bloor bike lanes.

Its not only cutting car emissions; its also providing people an alternative to crowded mass transit.

In light of the current situation, its a logical play.

 

[11th]

I honestly think that all these streetscape improvements are being sold the wrong way. Instead of focusing on the health improvements we should emphasize the rise in neighbourhood business. Instead of the area being a funnel for downtown it can be a destination, and have more people stay and spend money there. That raises land values, makes businesses richer, increases the city’s GDP...

The same way we should market parking minimums as “giving people choice”, and making housing more affordable.

The neighbourhood is already a destination. The city even have "Koreatown North" noted on those new TO360 signs. Pre-covid the street was vibrant on Friday and Saturday nights. It's not King West but it serves the demographics.