Yonge-Dundas Square/Sankofa Square (Brown + Storey Architects)

[T3G]

I think it's great that they're looking for a new name, but the end result is puzzling. Did all the people getting outraged participate in the process, though?

Or did a good chunk of the population just dismiss the idea of renaming places with "Dundas" in the name and spend their spare time watching foreign movies, shopping for imported goods, and consuming foreign culture in general?

Frankly, I'm just as guilty of it as others. But I know we need to do better with our place names than merely honouring early colonists who didn't accomplish that much from a cultural perspective but happened to buy up a lot of land or just happen to be the first colonists in an area.

The point is that too few people invest themselves in local culture, resulting in a vacuum effect where you can get this sort of puzzling result. Instead of saying "let's not spend money on this" more people should have thought out a better name as a matter of cultural pride and sense of ownership. The ship has sailed on not changing the name. We need to do it more responsibly, since it should only happen once in a lifetime or even more rarely.

I do not think it is only down to people being ignorant of local culture. At least, it isn't in my book. There were proposals to rename the square after Gordon Lightfoot after he died, and, given the general quality of the public space there, I would think naming the square after anyone who was not generally reviled in our local culture would be an insult.

The whole area needs to be ripped up and rethought. It is nice to have public gathering spaces, but Yonge and Dundas is one of the most distasteful intersections in our core. I'm dreading the thought of having to go there now to document Dundas station before its renaming.

Now all of that being said: I think the proposed name is apropos of nothing, and reeks of something inorganic put together by a committee, but I don't see what relevance its lack of relevance to "Canadian culture" has. We have streets and towns named after various places in Europe and Asia, which are no more relevant to Canadians than any other word or place from any other language. The real problem here is that the proposed renaming is performative and solves no real issues. Rename Dundas Square or keep it as it is; the end result is the same. No one's life has gotten better, no one has gotten worse, no one has been made richer or poorer. Why are we expending money and energy on such an empty, hollow act?

NB: I am not a fan of cultural protectionism. A well rounded individual should consume a variety of culture from a variety of different places, and that includes foreign cultures.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The whole area needs to be ripped up and rethought. It is nice to have public gathering spaces, but Yonge and Dundas is one of the most distasteful intersections in our core. I'm dreading the thought of having to go there now to document Dundas station before its renaming.

As a 52 year old Torontonian, I can attest that Yonge and Dundas was just fine as it was in the 1970s and 80s. Gritty headshops to buy posters, nunchucks and potpipes; arcades where for some extra coin and a friend playing watchmen you could watch an electronic strip show; the world biggest jeans store; sketchy electronics stores selling grey market walkmans; fantastic record stores at Sam’s and A&A; and once 18 you could hit the peelers; and then the non-chain greasy spoons flogging cheap food, opens to all hours. There was music all night.

 

[adma]

I'm just waiting for smart aleck instant coffee references from aging boomer grandads

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm just waiting for smart aleck instant coffee references from aging boomer grandads

True, lol. But us Gen-Xrs get forgotten, we’re not Boomers, and we saw the city and country at a different time. And Yonge Dundas was just fine, imo.

The history of Yonge and Dundas back when it was cool

If you asked the average Toronto resident to nominate the most touristy intersection in the city, most would select Yonge and Dundas. As a central ...

www.blogto.com

Now it’s just a squat for junkies beside US fast food and corporate billboards.

 

[jozl]

YDS is a horrible place. I always try to avoid it. I’m 72 and it was always ugly, even before YDS. Now it’s ugly AND awful. It took the city over 10 years to get it built. So now the city jumps in to change the name (Dundas was an abolitionist by the way) as if it contributes in any way to this sad failure.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Honestly, I don't care what the name of the square is, rename it, keep it the same, who honestly cares. All I personally care about is that two years ago, my at-the-the-time boyfriend had to pull me out of the way of a homeless man trying to hit me in the head with a blunt object out of nowhere as we were walking into the square while walking his dog, and we basically had to run for our lives while he chased us until the cleaning staff were able to scare him away by spraying hoses at him. They then told us it was the third such incident that night. Honestly the single scariest experience of my life. If my boyfriend hadn't noticed, solid chance this man would have injured or killed me, he went right at my head.

So name aside, this space will remain unsafe space for many people, especially queer people (just look at the homophobic screeching on the other side of the street every goddamn day), until council does something more about Toronto's problems than symbolic gestures.

 

[TossYourJacket]

i find this renaming highly hypocritical. In deleting a so called slavery supporter they chose a name that is based on an ideal from a country that openly endorses criminalising LGBTQ, something that Toronto embraces.
not to mention in doing so they essentially are being shadow racists in their own right by ignoring other ethnic communities in the gta (asians, jews, slavs, south asians, caucasians etc). this is supposed to be a central square to symbolise
the collective toronto identity NOT just to appease BLM. they shouldve used a more inclusive neutral name like metro square, toronto square, even Ford square.

Given YDS is probably the single most openly homophobic place in the city, bringing a name from an anti-LGBT country seems oddly fitting I suppose

Also, you kinda undermine your point on homophobia with "Ford Square", given the history of the Ford's and the gay community, but I digress. At least no one is suggesting Mark Saunders Square.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Nobody was even complaining about Dundas as a name except for a very small majority of people who will now find something else to be outraged about.

...I mean is that the opposite of large minority? Either sounds oxymoronic...just saying.

 

[khris]

I thought YDS is a POPS? They have the right to just change the name?

 

[reteequa]

Perhaps a look back to a past success.

In 1965, we replaced our colonial flag with the Maple Leaf. It's a symbol that didn''t speak to one ethnic group over another and the maple leaf is rooted in this place. Canada is a diverse country and multi-culturalism has been enshrined in our Constitution for decades. When we tackle issues like this, a look back to this example is helpful. I doubt you'll find many who don't think 'Canada' when they see our flag. It's a flag that speaks to ALL of us as Canadians.

Ethnic specific nods are a poor choice. The one exception are indigenous names as they're the original inhabitants of this land. If we're to choose something else, a historic figure that ALL Torontonians can relate to and admire is an equally good choice. My suggestion: TERRY FOX SQUARE, TERRY FOX WEST, TERRY FOX EAST, TERRY FOX STATION.

He's an inspiration to millions of people around the world and one of the most important Canadians ever. He was humble, kind, his feat heroic, and he made a difference. He may not be from Ontario (born in Winnipeg and moved to BC aged 8) but his Marathon of Hope ended, sadly, in our province. Yonge Street, where this square is located, stretches all the way to that lonely Thunder Bay location where his journey ended. I'm hard pressed to think of a more fitting name for this square.

I’m not saying I like the name but I feel like people are focusing too much on it being a Ghanaian word and not just a word that has an important meaning behind it.

If we removed the whole notion of it being from Ghana what do people think of the meaning behind the word?

I feel like it’s a good word that reflects on the past and creates a notion being better as a society. Maybes it’s not the most catchy word or linked to our heritage but I do like the theme they’ve gone for with it.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Given YDS is probably the single most openly homophobic place in the city, bringing a name from an anti-LGBT country seems oddly fitting I suppose

Speaking from the other team’s POV, how is it homophobic? All the church soapboxers?

 

[Towered]

Honestly, I don't care what the name of the square is, rename it, keep it the same, who honestly cares. All I personally care about is that two years ago, my at-the-the-time boyfriend had to pull me out of the way of a homeless man trying to hit me in the head with a blunt object out of nowhere as we were walking into the square while walking his dog, and we basically had to run for our lives while he chased us until the cleaning staff were able to scare him away by spraying hoses at him. They then told us it was the third such incident that night. Honestly the single scariest experience of my life. If my boyfriend hadn't noticed, solid chance this man would have injured or killed me, he went right at my head.

So name aside, this space will remain unsafe space for many people, especially queer people (just look at the homophobic screeching on the other side of the street every goddamn day), until council does something more about Toronto's problems than symbolic gestures.

It's a vile place. I work nearby, so occasionally I wander over to check out specific shops during lunch, but even at that time of day, noonish, I feel very on edge due to all the sketchy and otherwise mentally ill people ambling about. It's a failure.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

So name aside, this space will remain unsafe space for many people, especially queer people (just look at the homophobic screeching on the other side of the street every goddamn day), until council does something more about Toronto's problems than symbolic gestures.

I think this is a very important factor to consider here. That is, for hate speech to paint targets on the backs of those who it is directed at gives those others of less stability more permission to act on them. I had a similar story of my trans friend in Hamilton who was kept getting harassed for being trans in a similar fashion by someone with serious mental health/boundary issues at random while walking on the streets minding her own business. It's a terrible state to see this kind of punching down. But hate begets hate...whether it from the street pulpits, YouTube blogs or politicians wanting to score voter points. And people listen to that shite, want to do something about it and sometimes in very bad and awful ways. So here we are. /bleh

 

[adma]

Given YDS is probably the single most openly homophobic place in the city, bringing a name from an anti-LGBT country seems oddly fitting I suppose

Also, you kinda undermine your point on homophobia with "Ford Square", given the history of the Ford's and the gay community, but I digress. At least no one is suggesting Mark Saunders Square.

Just because *you* had a homophobic experience there doesn't make it "the single most openly homophobic place in the city".

In the end, it's more of a "crazies problem" than a "homophobia problem". And even crazies-wise, it's far from a Vancouver Downtown East Side (or "Queens Park during Freedom protests") situation. So the best advice is, don't let down your guard, even if it's a "popular" public space in the heart of the city and, as such, might lead some to be complacent. No different from the advice given to travelers at popular tourist and/or transit hubs worldwide. (Indeed, speaking of transit, this might as well all relate to the homeless-on-the-TTC discussion point, and how that can scare the unfamiliar.)

 

[wopchop]

1. How many people of African descent live in Toronto / GTA vs people of European, East Asian and South Asian descent?
2. Many of African descent who ended up in North America didn't come here willingly. Thats true. But how true is it for Canada?
   1. Going by the statistics that show 92% of Black Canadians are 1st or 2nd gen immigrants that number is going to be pretty low.
3. Sankofa means nothing to the vast majority of Torontonians and Canadians at large. Might as well have named it Cofurevewor or some other ChatGPT-esque name and told us that it means "build a better future"

Keep in mind that a large percentage of that 92% come from Caribbean nations, and you can guess how their ancestors arrived there.