Why to support the Liberal Party

[Brandon716]

+1

Fully agree. I really dislike and despise this kind of bitterness. But what can you do? I have said before that Brandon only looks at things through a left-right lens. A learned behaviour from his American upbringing. When you look at things from such a polarized lens, anything but an outright victory of "your side" is considered an unmitigated disaster.

At least I grew up in a democratic nation, you grew up in the Middle East in a nation without democracy, therefore you don't understand how democracy works.

...Now if you understand how silly that statement sounds, you will understand how silly you are Keithz. You are on my ignore list, but I couldn't help to know your last comment was somehow personally directed at me so I took a glimpse, and I wasn't disappointed.

I have a right to be "frustrated", my chances for immigration get smaller and smaller with this government. Your personal obsession with attacking me personally and discriminating against me because I grew up in America is yet another testament to how you have absolutely nothing to offer in any of these debates.

Again, you're from the Middle East, so I don't understand how you understand democracy.... Since we're going to the lowest common denominator I might as well offer you the same non-sense.

 

[Mongo]

I hear one riding has a non-french speaking pole dancer from a strip club that won.

I wonder how often this sort of nonsense will be repeated. Ruth Ellen Brosseau was not a pole dancer, she was assistant manager of Oliver's Pub in Ottawa, with a degree in advertising and integrated marketing communications from St. Lawrence College in Kingston.

 

[kEiThZ]

At least I grew up in a democratic nation, you grew up in the Middle East in a nation without democracy, therefore you don't understand how democracy works.

I didn't say you didn't understand democracy. I contend that you don't understand our democracy. How else to account for the fact that you completely disregarded the demolition of the BQ (an existential threat to this great country) and run around with gloom and doom because Harper was re-elected.

...Now if you understand how silly that statement sounds, you will understand how silly you are Keithz. You are on my ignore list, but I couldn't help to know your last comment was somehow personally directed at me so I took a glimpse, and I wasn't disappointed.

Feel free to keep me on there. Doesn't mean I won't challenge your statements. Less work for me.

I have a right to be "frustrated", my chances for immigration get smaller and smaller with this government.

At a time when we are seeing some of the highest immigration levels in our history? Just look at some of those GTA Conservative candidates. You'll be surprised how many immigrants are in there.

And I am dying to see your substantiation of this supposed great immigration cover-up. Just because the criteria are challenging to you does not mean there's some grand national conspiracy to keep all migrants out.

Your personal obsession with attacking me personally and discriminating against me because I grew up in America is yet another testament to how you have absolutely nothing to offer in any of these debates.

I only challenge you when you bring your personal background or biases into the debate. Who else would seriously suggest that Iggy moved the Liberals to the right. Come on.

Again, you're from the Middle East, so I don't understand how you understand democracy.... Since we're going to the lowest common denominator I might as well offer you the same non-sense.

I won't sink that low.

 

[kEiThZ]

I wonder how often this sort of nonsense will be repeated. Ruth Ellen Brosseau was not a pole dancer, she was assistant manager of Oliver's Pub in Ottawa, with a degree in advertising and integrated marketing communications from St. Lawrence College in Kingston.

She's a good looking dipper. And she robbed a Liberal of a seat (because only Liberals and the BQ are entitled to contest for seats in Quebec). She must be a pole dancer. /s

 

[urbandreamer]

Brandon is wrong. The NDP have more power now that they "own" Quebec.

I don't buy the bs that the Bloc is dead--those NDP-ers could easily jump ship and become a new PQ-centred party.

As for left wing vs right--it's really just like Pepsi or Coke, not much difference here in Canada once elected; differences in elections perhaps, but ultimately the same bs.

Why does everyone here seem to want a 24/7 lifetime Liberal Dictatorship?

(btw, Ignatieff is actually a nice guy, I've met him in person... He's very elitist of course--as am I -- which isn't surprising given his roots.... He's an intellectual, not a politician.)

 

[doady]

I like Ignatieff too, but I'm actually glad in way Liberals got crushed, same with the Bloc, but not as glad for Conservative majority, to say the least.

Liberals never really changed - still ignored urban issues, even though their voters were and are still mostly in urban ridings. NDP was the only party that has a platform for urban dwellers, so i could only vote for them. And they won in Scarborough-Rouge River, and came VERY close to winning in Bramalea-Gore-Malton, how cool is that?

 

[kEiThZ]

The dippers won in Scarborough-Rouge River (my riding) in no small part because they ran a Tamil candidate in a riding with a very heavy concentration of Tamil-Canadians. What I found surprising was the fact that the Conservatives came in second place and lost by 5000 votes. When Derek Lee was in office, it was a Liberal safe seat, and he would routinely win by 10000-20000 votes.

Both the Liberal and the Conservative candidates had significantly better credentials and were well talked about in the community. And the area has no history of electing NDP candidates at the federal level. Historically, they weren't even the second place party. So I have no doubt that a candidate who could tap into the Tamil community, helped the NDP secure a historic win here.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Yes and no. Look at Obama in the US. How savagely he was attacked. The whisper (and now outright talk) campaigns about his legitimacy. The racism. Etc. He still won. Attack ads only work if they stick. If they don't, the party that ran them can look very, very mean-spirited. IMHO, Iggy lost because the man offered no concrete vision. He came off as an old school Liberal selling the old fear-of-the-right medicine that just does not sell after two minority Conservative governments. Layton on the other hand offered a positive upbeat message. He didn't so much talk about how bad the Conservatives as he did about how much the NDP could do for Canadians. He offered an alternative vision and was rewarded for it.

but that was obama. iggy is no obama. most people i've talked to were scared of iggy because of the picture the attack ads painted of him. these people were liberal people. they also thought he was boring. maybe iggy is more comparable with kerry.

the attack ads on iggy worked. the racism against obama, secret muslim & birther crap backfired on the right. if our conservatives would have made vocal racist attacks on iggy, claimed he was a member of a religious group in a pejorative way, etc. alot of people would be turned off. the impression most people got was that he was here temporarily, as an opportunist, just so he could be PM. the conservative chose the right weapon.

 

[adma]

She's a good looking dipper. And she robbed a Liberal of a seat (because only Liberals and the BQ are entitled to contest for seats in Quebec). She must be a pole dancer. /s

Actually, her seat would scarcely if at all have been in play for the Liberals--indeed, there might have been a better case for it being in play for the Tories...

 

[GenerationW]

The Liberals have only themselves to blame for being abandoned at the polls by GTA recent immigrants, seeing as how they have ignored these people for years. The Conservatives have been courting this vote for the past decade, and their efforts paid off in this election. I assume Brandon is whining about immigration based on his own situation, but he's completely out to lunch if he's referring to immigration in general.

 

[kEiThZ]

The Liberals have only themselves to blame for being abandoned at the polls by GTA recent immigrants, seeing as how they have ignored these people for years. The Conservatives have been courting this vote for the past decade, and their efforts paid off in this election. I assume Brandon is whining about immigration based on his own situation, but he's completely out to lunch if he's referring to immigration in general.

He is referring to immigration in general. But he bases his opinion on his own personal experience (of having difficulty qualifying). That's the reason I'm calling him out. Well that and his perpetually tendency to promote extremely polarizing US style political fights in this country, which I have no apetite for. Other than that, I hold nothing against him. Seems like a perfectly reasonable fellow to me.

however, he keeps suggesting that immigration levels have dropped off under the Conservatives. I have yet to see evidence of this. Again, if somebody has proof, please post it. I'm genuinely curious.

Have standards, application options, etc. been changed? Undoubtedly. Every government that comes in, plays with immigration policies. But I have yet to see evidence that the Conservatives are somehow out to curtail immigration. That would be economic suicide for Canada.

And I fully agree that the Conservatives are finally learning to court immigrants. This is a good thing. I half suspect that those nutters in the party who dislike immigrant, in part at least, did so because they saw immigrants as political opponents who stuck to the Liberals. Now that immigrants are in the Conservative camp, you can bet that the Conservatives will favour immigration. This is a laughably ironic twist for right-wing nutters who used to long accuse the Liberals of brining in immigrants to bolster their seat count.

But I'm not surprised. My ethnic upbringing has always suggested to me that most immigrants had Conservative values, often even more to the right of the party line. Let's be honest. Most immigrants in the GTA come from conservative cultures which take very conservative stances on social issues, and are often part of the small business class (or somehow related to them) which favours lower taxes. This is why I've never understood immigrant support for the Liberals. I saw it as unnatural personally. Here on in, I think you'll see staunch immigrant support for the Conservatives. And I think you'll even see immigrants forming part of the social conservative base.

 

[Eug]

And I fully agree that the Conservatives are finally learning to court immigrants. This is a good thing. I half suspect that those nutters in the party who dislike immigrant, in part at least, did so because they saw immigrants as political opponents who stuck to the Liberals. Now that immigrants are in the Conservative camp, you can bet that the Conservatives will favour immigration. This is a laughably ironic twist for right-wing nutters who used to long accuse the Liberals of brining in immigrants to bolster their seat count.

But I'm not surprised. My ethnic upbringing has always suggested to me that most immigrants had Conservative values, often even more to the right of the party line. Let's be honest. Most immigrants in the GTA come from conservative cultures which take very conservative stances on social issues, and are often part of the small business class (or somehow related to them) which favours lower taxes. This is why I've never understood immigrant support for the Liberals. I saw it as unnatural personally. Here on in, I think you'll see staunch immigrant support for the Conservatives. And I think you'll even see immigrants forming part of the social conservative base.

I may agree that often certain "ethnic" groups do have more conservative values, but there was good reason in previous decades for new immigrants to favour more left leaning parties. You still get comments from the right (esp. the fringe) mentioning that new immigrants are a drain on society that make use of our social programs but pay little into them. Just look at what's happening in France. Immigrants are the scapegoat for everything.

In Canada it seemed that the Liberals and NDP initially had a more open approach to new immigrants. The Conservatives have been courting key immigrant populations of late, but the key part of that statement is "of late". The population is much more multicultural than it used to be, and the general population... and the Conservatives... in Canada are more tolerant than they used to be. It's more "normal" these days to be an immigrant, and there are too many to ignore from a votes point of view.

 

[kEiThZ]

I may agree that often certain "ethnic" groups do have more conservative values, but there was good reason in previous decades for new immigrants to favour more left leaning parties. You still get comments from the right (esp. the fringe) mentioning that new immigrants are a drain on society that make use of our social programs but pay little into them. Just look at what's happening in France. Immigrants are the scapegoat for everything.

France (and most of Europe) and Canada do not have the same history with immigration though. With the exception of the very far right, the vast majority of Canadians (even those on the right) agree on the need for immigrants. And to any who would suggest the Conservatives are naturally anti-immigrant, I point to the election of Naheed Nenshi in the heart of wild rose country as evidence to the contrary.

In Canada it seemed that the Liberals and NDP initially had a more open approach to new immigrants. The Conservatives have been courting key immigrant populations of late, but the key part of that statement is "of late". The population is much more multicultural than it used to be, and the general population... and the Conservatives... in Canada are more tolerant than they used to be. It's more "normal" these days to be an immigrant, and there are too many to ignore from a votes point of view.

And that's fine. Better late than never. Good for Harper for casting the anti-immigrant nutters aside and courting the immigrant communities. This is a good move, for the Conservatives and for Canada.

But I would suggest it was never as clear cut as people make it out to be. After all, Rahim Jaffer was elected as a Reformer.

I hope they don't get carried away though. I don't feel good about what happened in my riding (Scarborough-Rouge River). It's quite clear to most of us (including some of my Tamil friends) that the NDP candidate won because of her ethnicity, even though the Conservative and Liberals candidates were both eminently more qualified in most eyes. Perhaps because of my background, I am deeply suspicious and opposed to tribal politics coming here. Good move for the NDP. Terrible for democracy.

 

[jeff316]

I don't feel good about what happened in my riding (Scarborough-Rouge River). It's quite clear to most of us (including some of my Tamil friends) that the NDP candidate won because of her ethnicity, even though the Conservative and Liberals candidates were both eminently more qualified in most eyes. Perhaps because of my background, I am deeply suspicious and opposed to tribal politics coming here. Good move for the NDP. Terrible for democracy.

Hahahahahahahahahaahahahahaah if it's "quite clear to most of us" then how they heck did that person get elected?

I've always found the 'ethnic politics' arguments to be totally partisan. Compeltely phoney.

It's always a triumph for diversity when it's your candidate and low-ball tribal politics when it's not yours.

It's easy to call in to question people's 'qualifications' because, well, what is 'qualified' is emminently arbitrary and individual to each person.

Something like 55 percent of the neighbouring Scarborough southwest riding is white and they elected a white guy. Is that tribal? Or is that the old guard not accurately reflecting the riding's diversity? The answer always seems to depend on each commenter's political preferences

 

[kEiThZ]

Hahahahahahahahahaahahahahaah if it's "quite clear to most of us" then how they heck did that person get elected?

I've always found the 'ethnic politics' arguments to be totally partisan. Compeltely phoney.

It's always a triumph for diversity when it's your candidate and low-ball tribal politics when it's not yours.

It's easy to call in to question people's 'qualifications' because, well, what is 'qualified' is emminently arbitrary and individual to each person.

Something like 55 percent of the neighbouring Scarborough southwest riding is white and they elected a white guy. Is that tribal? Or is that the old guard not accurately reflecting the riding's diversity? The answer always seems to depend on each commenter's political preferences

The Conservative candidate was an immigration lawyer of Indian and European descent who spoke several languages, including Tamil, Hindi and Farsi. A Rotarian who actually got endorsed by the Scarborough Mirror.

The Liberal candidate was a person of Indian descent who was the former president and CEO of the Canada-India business council and a graduate of the London School of Economics.

The NDP candidate. Nothing significant to her name....even community involvement wise. Her last accomplishment was in university student politics a half decade prior.

To those of us who are of a South Asian background, we know exactly what this is. Three South Asian candidates. Two can speak Tamil. But only one of them is actually ethnically Tamil. Guess who won.

This is in a riding where the NDP has never placed higher than third and actually was the fourth choice during the Reform years. This is a riding where the recently retired Liberal incumbent has held the seat since 1988 with a usual margin between 10 000-20 000 votes and with one victory as high as 25 000 votes. And he was white (and widely respected by the way).

Unless you grew up in South Asia, you would have no idea how to recognize what's going on. But I did. And I can see it. South Asia's tribal and caste politics are coming to Canada. Skin colour, religion, ethnicity and last name will now determine who wins. Sad.