Why the Hate for Mississauga?

[adma]

Just as some may have an instinctive hatred for Mississauga, I associate 'home' with this city. And I agree -- when we are wearing our urbanist hats, we should put aside these feelings and look at a city and its context with a critical, dispassionate eye. But when we are not, other factors may come into play.

Well, maybe you need a more nuanced version of "home".

Like, before Mississauga, a classic icon of suburban-sprawl (and one-time whitebread) dystopia was Scarborough--to creative-minded Scarberians from Mike Myers to the folk behind this it's "home", yet not to the point of la-la land delusion as to what made "Scarborough" a negative byword; maybe in their way, it's a celebration and folding of the negative rap against itself. Maybe that's what Mississaugans should do--not be puzzled, but comprehend and even revel in the negative-iconness of the place--turn it into a positive.

It's in *that* context that I think "home", in your sense, is insipid...

 

[bleeepbluuup]

Well, maybe you need a more nuanced version of "home".

Like, before Mississauga, a classic icon of suburban-sprawl (and one-time whitebread) dystopia was Scarborough--to creative-minded Scarberians from Mike Myers to the folk behind this it's "home", yet not to the point of la-la land delusion as to what made "Scarborough" a negative byword; maybe in their way, it's a celebration and folding of the negative rap against itself. Maybe that's what Mississaugans should do--not be puzzled, but comprehend and even revel in the negative-iconness of the place--turn it into a positive.

It's in *that* context that I think "home", in your sense, is insipid...

Ok, fair enough. I think we're still talking past each other, but this is starting to feel like Groundhog Day, so I'll shut up now.

 

[adma]

Shifting from Scarborough to North York, if you want another case in point re looking beyond the insipid-in-itself notion of "home", here you go.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Comparing Mississauga to parts of Long Island-there are some similarities...

Adma and CC: I noticed LI mentioned in comparison to the City of Mississauga.

There are similarities between the relationships both have with their much larger neighbors next door.

I will use Nassau County to compare with Peel County/region in this manner:
Both are large population predominately car-dependent bedroom communities.
Nassau County began to grow after WW2 with massive developments like Levittown built-it grew from the late 40s into the 50s and 60s and basically was built out by the early 70s.

I believe the development in Mississauga was later-in the 60s and 70s and even later in other parts of Peel County/region. Which part of Mississauga is Mineola West? Mineola,LI,NY happens to be the Nassau County seat and that name caught my eye.

Long Island today - Nassau and Suffolk Counties,NY have a population around 2.8 million my estimate today. The growth later has been further away from NYC in Suffolk County in more recent years.

I feel a comparison can be made also with the Baltimore/Washington,DC areas due to the equal distance between Hamilton and Toronto for both-about 40 miles- and with the growth and sprawl they definitely overlap one another's areas.There also has been growth in outer areas adjacent to both regions also.

Thoughts and comments from LI Mike

 

[adma]

Nassau County began to grow after WW2 with massive developments like Levittown built-it grew from the late 40s into the 50s and 60s and basically was built out by the early 70s.

Harold Shipp = the William Levitt of Mississauga

 

[kettal]

Thank you for skipping the entire thread and adding absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.

...

I have lived in Mississauga since 2003. Prior to that - as an adult - I have lived in Etobicoke, the Annex and Woodbridge, so aside from living right in the heart of DT Toronto, you could say I've tasted much of what the GTA has to offer.

My personal preference is to live somewhere that I can walk to places from. Some place like College St or Avenue Rd or Y+E suits my lifestyle perfectly if I don't factor work into the equation, but considering that I am in business and the most convenient/strategic place for my business is in the industrial area just west of Pearson, it doesn't make sense to force myself to live in a more urban setting. I do need to drive every day as my work often has me meeting with clients or picking up / dropping off goods - and since don't believe in long commutes I choose to live within a 10 minute drive of our location, or "east Mississauga". It's convenient and it's practical by many measures.

That said, I think Mississauga could be so much more than it is. So many things could have been done better, but being next to the largest city in the country was what allowed some of the bad decisions to be made. What London or Ottawa or Calgary would do in growth times would obviously be different than a place 30km from DT Toronto, and it shows.

But...

While it is not as good as it could be, it is clearly not as bad as some would have you believe. What it lacks in a "core identity" (or wherever terms you wish to use) doesn't have to be permanent. People harp on Hurontario being wide enough to land a plane on, but it's exactly the same width as Broadway or Park Ave. What old neighborhoods it does have are disjointed (Streetsville, Port Credit) but with vast undeveloped spaces and ease of re-development of even more space - the flaws aren't permanent and the mindset HAS changed. Sure, there are always opponents to change but the majority of those who live here DO want a city with its own core, with an identity and with better integration of people into the space.

While the cul-de-sacs and cookie cutter subdivisions won't go away - and transit/traffic flow will be less than perfect - many portions of Mississauga will get much more dense. Square One won't go away, but the parking lots and empty areas around the MCC will form a "core" that will be far more urban and livable than many cities with a far "bigger" reputation. Anyone who's been to Atlanta or Dallas or Phoenix can confirm this, but with a little luck and some decent planners, it can work quite well.

It's entirely possible that they screw it up even more, but how about we wait and see the actual result first? The city didn't do so well through its "grade school" growing up years, but is now entering a more mind-opening "high school" period and seems to realize that it as to smarten up if it plans to have any success in the future. There are some good things in place and with a few good ideas and a little hard work, it can become "all grown up" at some point. It's far too young and unfinished a city at this point to really know how it'll end up.

I sure hope you are right.

It's streets like Hurontario that set Mississauga apart from other GTA suburbs. This street is about as human friendly as a 400-series freeway. I really think its worse than York Region suburbia.

 

[kettal]

If MCC really wants a main street, Hurontario is not going to be it. If I could play God, I would make a corridor from Cooksville Station going north, destroying a corridor of suburban housing, and make this into the new main street , running from Dundas up to Square one. This would also be the path for the Hurontario LRT in this section.

 

[doady]

I sure hope you are right.

It's streets like Hurontario that set Mississauga apart from other GTA suburbs. This street is about as human friendly as a 400-series freeway. I really think its worse than York Region suburbia.

Yeah, Hurontario is so unfriendly, that's why it has the busiest bus route in the 905 and the most profitable bus/streetcar route in the whole GTA.

Yep, obviously Hurontario is a very harsh environment for pedestrians. Your incredible insight into the problems of Mississauga is both provoking and shocking.

 

[Dan416]

Adma and CC: I noticed LI mentioned in comparison to the City of Mississauga.

There are similarities between the relationships both have with their much larger neighbors next door.

I will use Nassau County to compare with Peel County/region in this manner:
Both are large population predominately car-dependent bedroom communities.
Nassau County began to grow after WW2 with massive developments like Levittown built-it grew from the late 40s into the 50s and 60s and basically was built out by the early 70s.

I believe the development in Mississauga was later-in the 60s and 70s and even later in other parts of Peel County/region. Which part of Mississauga is Mineola West? Mineola,LI,NY happens to be the Nassau County seat and that name caught my eye.

Long Island today - Nassau and Suffolk Counties,NY have a population around 2.8 million my estimate today. The growth later has been further away from NYC in Suffolk County in more recent years.

I feel a comparison can be made also with the Baltimore/Washington,DC areas due to the equal distance between Hamilton and Toronto for both-about 40 miles- and with the growth and sprawl they definitely overlap one another's areas.There also has been growth in outer areas adjacent to both regions also.

Thoughts and comments from LI Mike

Mineola West is Mineola Road West (versus Mineola Road East). The east-west divider in Mississauga is Hurontario Street.

Mineola was built in the 50s (I remember a concrete paver in our backyard having the year 1956 written on it). I couldn't tell you the exact year. If you google-map L5G 3C9 that's my old postal code. It was basically a lot of bungalows and smallish homes on big lots that has slowly been replaced by mini-mansions (and some not-so-mini). Its very nicely treed and unlike vast tracts of subdivision in Mississauga. It's a desirable area, even compared to Mineola East.

Although growing up I never called it Mineola West, just Mineola. Maybe Mineola West is a real estate term.

 

[kettal]

Yeah, Hurontario is so unfriendly, that's why it has the busiest bus route in the 905 and the most profitable bus/streetcar route in the whole GTA.

Yep, obviously Hurontario is a very harsh environment for pedestrians. Your incredible insight into the problems of Mississauga is both provoking and shocking.

I was aiming for accuracy, not provocation or shock.

There are many profitable & successful GO bus routes that use 400-series highways. I guess that makes them into pedestrian wonderlands too! I invite you to go for a walk across 407, one of GO's most successful routes! Shall I help you pack the picnic basket?

 

[syn]

I was aiming for accuracy, not provocation or shock.

There are many profitable & successful GO bus routes that use 400-series highways. I guess that makes them into pedestrian wonderlands too! I invite you to go for a walk across 407, one of GO's most successful routes! Shall I help you pack the picnic basket?

lol

Hurontario is not all bad, but it does have some huge stretches that aren't anywhere near pedestrian friendly. The best of it is at Dundas & Hurontario - the rest isn't so great.

I find Mississauga gets nicer the futher south you go. Most of the stuff south of Dundas is actually relatively transit friendly.

 

[doady]

I was aiming for accuracy, not provocation or shock.

There are many profitable & successful GO bus routes that use 400-series highways. I guess that makes them into pedestrian wonderlands too! I invite you to go for a walk across 407, one of GO's most successful routes! Shall I help you pack the picnic basket?

Are you saying that people can actually board buses on the 400 or 407? There are bus stops along the sides of the 400 and 407? Perhaps you should get out more.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I was aiming for accuracy, not provocation or shock.

You should have aimed elsewhere, because none of these targets were hit.

Assuming you've never walked along the rest of Hurontario, perhaps you were close if referring to a spot like around Derry, but who would be provoked or shocked that an industrial area isn't the nicest to walk around in?

 

[doady]

lol

Hurontario is not all bad, but it does have some huge stretches that aren't anywhere near pedestrian friendly. The best of it is at Dundas & Hurontario - the rest isn't so great.

I find Mississauga gets nicer the futher south you go. Most of the stuff south of Dundas is actually relatively transit friendly.

Hurontario is not even the most pedestrian unfriendly corridor in Mississauga. Only Lakeshore is better.

Kettal's comment just an example of the stupidity of Torontonian views of Mississauga. 6-lane roads in York Region are okay, but in Mississauga they are worse than 400 series highways. And apparently, MT route 19 provides the same kind of transit service as the GO highway coaches. This kind of view of transit service sort of explains his support of Transit City.

Anyways, this is exactly why I don't bother posting any Mississauga photos here anymore. I get the feeling they are not welcome here, so I don't bother. Brampton, Oakville, etc. okay, but Mississauga? Forget it.

 

[kettal]

Hurontario is not even the most pedestrian unfriendly corridor in Mississauga. Only Lakeshore is better.

Kettal's comment just an example of the stupidity of Torontonian views of Mississauga. 6-lane roads in York Region are okay, but in Mississauga they are worse than 400 series highways. And apparently, MT route 19 provides the same kind of transit service as the GO highway coaches. This kind of view of transit service sort of explains his support of Transit City.

Anyways, this is exactly why I don't bother posting any Mississauga photos here anymore. I get the feeling they are not welcome here, so I don't bother. Brampton, Oakville, etc. okay, but Mississauga? Forget it.

Wait, you call this one of the most pedestrian friendly streets in the whole city? That's when you know your city's got problems.

No, this is not a picture from an industrial factory zone, this is the "main street" in the heart of the "city centre". Don't kid yourself. This is no main street, it's a highway bypass.

Does York Region have bad streets like this? Yes. I don't hold York on any pedestal, it's just that York's worst cases are as bad as the so-called main street in so-called downtown Mississauga.

And I love some parts of Mississauga. I will praise Port Credit as a beautiful community. If the rest of Mississauga was build in the fashion of Port Credit, I would have no such complaints.