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blixa442
Guest
...and so are Catholic girls.
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spmarshall
Guest
It's why the catholic cities are more fun.
No wonder Toronto was not fun up to the early 1960s - which was certainly found in Montreal.
That's a great theory, Shawn.
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cdl42
Guest
Yeah, but most Protestants believe that you must confess your sins directly to God and ask for forgiveness, while you forgive those who have sinned against you with no need for a priest. The idea is that forgiveness is provided not though one man, but through a community as a whole. Since it's technically "easier" to gain forgiveness this way, your argument would seem to suggest that Protestant cities would been even wilder.
No, I would say that forgiveness has nothing to do with it, resting more on simple attitudes and beliefs.
Wylie, can you back my up on what I have said, or am I off track?
No, I would say that forgiveness has nothing to do with it, resting more on simple attitudes and beliefs.
Wylie, can you back my up on what I have said, or am I off track?
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shawnmicallef
Guest
But with talking straight to God, the "forgiveness" is more faith based. One assumes one has been forgivenen, but God doesn't actually tell you that straight up (well, perhaps to the lucky few). Whereas at the conclusion of confession, the Priest tells you to do some stuff, then you're forgiven. Those were the good days if i recall -- like leaving the dentist. All clean and ready to kiss stuff.
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indense
Guest
ha! i'm stealing that one.like leaving the dentist. All clean and ready to kiss stuff.
i think you are right about how catholics have that feedback - a definitive yes/no (can a priest say no?). i think that's what the born again crowd is after. they have created a litmus test, an event that after it occurs you can say for sure that you are squeeky clean.
although it appears as if being "born again" also covers you going forward. as long as you can correctly answer that "have you accepted...?" question you have to do something really really bad (worse than starting a war) to be dirty again. of course then you just get "born again again" (re-born again?) and you're good for another 100k miles.
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cdl42
Guest
Being "born again" doesn't cover you for anything, it's simply an adjective term for those who were once followers of the Christian faith, "lost their way", and re-discovered it once again. To obtain forgiveness (and enter the kingdom of heaven yadda yadda yadda) you must repent your sins (a primary part of "developing a personal relationship with Jesus").
If someone who already is a Christian sins, they don't need to be "born again", they simply have to ask for forgiveness while forgiving those who have wronged you.
Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times (or seventy times seven)." (Matthew 18:21-22)
Forgive, and you will be forgiven. (Luke 6:37)
If someone who already is a Christian sins, they don't need to be "born again", they simply have to ask for forgiveness while forgiving those who have wronged you.
Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times (or seventy times seven)." (Matthew 18:21-22)
Forgive, and you will be forgiven. (Luke 6:37)
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shawnmicallef
Guest
Quoting the Bible is not going to help us understand Christians any better.
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cdl42
Guest
Heh. Good point.
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thx1038
Guest
There are so many posts on this thread. i don't have time to read all of them, so what I'm about to say may have already been said.
Why would someone seek help if they will get arrested? The jail and legal time will only ad to their trouble. in order to have a sucessful society, its should be easy to get help.
Why would someone seek help if they will get arrested? The jail and legal time will only ad to their trouble. in order to have a sucessful society, its should be easy to get help.
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cdl42
Guest
shawn et al:
At very least, an interesting part of looking at the different beliefs and interpretations of different groups and sects is seeing how they all manage to set rules based upon how they interpret things (such as scripture), and then work and manage to find ways to bend and break those same rules... based upon how they interpret things.
So, as you said, inevitably quoting the Bible (even if I grab my quotes from Wikipedia) doesn't help us understand Christians any better.
At very least, an interesting part of looking at the different beliefs and interpretations of different groups and sects is seeing how they all manage to set rules based upon how they interpret things (such as scripture), and then work and manage to find ways to bend and break those same rules... based upon how they interpret things.
So, as you said, inevitably quoting the Bible (even if I grab my quotes from Wikipedia) doesn't help us understand Christians any better.