Who's more right-wing: Harper or Obama?

[Andy]

Which all started under Dubya.

Absolutely.
dubya started this ball of crap rolling. his poll numbers were extremely low for such a long time (and till the end) because he betrayed even small-'c' conservatives.
Expanding medicare benefits, not securing the southern border with Mexico and the first multi billion dollar TARP giveaway toward the end were just a few things that disappointed "the base"(altho the dems rule/d congress &the senate).
Even tho the media portrayed him as a 'extreme right winger' his actions belied this monicker . bush, like daddy bush, was/is a globalist first. the only thing cons were satisfied with were the two supreme court appointments and his initial war on 'terror' -ie islamofacists. conservative republicans do not consider him an ideological conservative like Goldwater or Reagan.(plus his faith in God gained him some favor with some evangelicals -and which made libs hysterical!)

And probably most disappointing to his "base" was his expansion of government/programs. yes, expansion. Limited government is a primary, if not the primary tenet of conservatism (and libertarians like myself)

what the american right is so horrified about now is that the dems and obama are planning even more spending, more expansion of government and his robin hood style of redistribution.
Consider this;
if spending 1 trillion dollars will make the economy 'rebound' then why not spend 5 trillion? 6? 10? the math doesn't add up -Wall Street isn't fooled, that's why the Dow dropped to a ten year low with the announcement of the Pork-Package last week -real stimulating) (check your mutual funds,or rrsp or 401k(u.s.) if you want to feel 'encouraged')

(also, funny how 24,000 more troops to afgan didn't arouse Code Pink(Stink) &co.(or big media attention) -didn't hussien run as the candidate to end the war? -running on Left/Liberal platitudes always sounds great; "a chicken in every pot..." )

 

[afransen]

Nonetheless, my point stands. As right-wing and blue-C as Alberta is, it ain't for lack of melanin--indeed, Harper can point to his party's ability to sustain its Alberta wins in the face of demographic change, as a model for what the Tories *can* do elsewhere in Canada...

It has a lot to do with the political culture there, partially due to the easy money (oil), well-harboured grudges (NEP), and influence of American settlers. The biggest problem is that Alberta is a one-party state. The politics of that province are deeply broken. The only semblance of choice is in electing the leader of the PC party.

 

[Hydrogen]

It might also have to do with a belief that the conservatives better represent western aspirations, and less to do with ideological conservatism.

What's the difference between a conservative voter in Ontario (or Quebec), and a conservative voter in Alberta?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

It might also have to do with a belief that the conservatives better represent western aspirations, and less to do with ideological conservatism.

What's the difference between a conservative voter in Ontario (or Quebec), and a conservative voter in Alberta?

about a thousand kilometers.

 

[kEiThZ]

It might also have to do with a belief that the conservatives better represent western aspirations, and less to do with ideological conservatism.

Agreed. Until the NEP came along the Liberals did fine out west. It doesn't help today that there's quite a few Libs today who want to meet Canada's Kyoto commitments by basically sacrificing Alberta's oil industry.

 

[adma]

It might also have to do with a belief that the conservatives better represent western aspirations, and less to do with ideological conservatism.

What's the difference between a conservative voter in Ontario (or Quebec), and a conservative voter in Alberta?

Then again, one might say that the party's recent advances in Ontario and Quebec have resulted from a transposition of that "aspiration over ideology" formula into other realms. It isn't like the constituents of Whitby-Oshawa are terribly *ideological* in their support of Jim Flaherty, you know...

 

[afransen]

Agreed. Until the NEP came along the Liberals did fine out west. It doesn't help today that there's quite a few Libs today who want to meet Canada's Kyoto commitments by basically sacrificing Alberta's oil industry.

I don't think that is a fair characterization.

 

[toraerach]

It might also have to do with a belief that the conservatives better represent western aspirations, and less to do with ideological conservatism.

What's the difference between a conservative voter in Ontario (or Quebec), and a conservative voter in Alberta?

I have to agree with you here. I have a friend out in Fort McMurray who generally supports left-leaning causes yet votes Conservative because "it's the West's turn to rule the country." Although this is not restricted to the relationship between Conservatives and the West - how many NDP voters in Northern Ontario are actually social democrats? Ditto BQ supporters in rural Quebec (though that relationship is far more complex).

Back to the question at hand - who is more right-wing? It's hard to say really. Both countries are so different politically and require different compromises in their leaders. Both leaders say things to appease their base while doing things that will appeal to as many voters as possible. I'd say this is more exaggerated in Harper's case as he doesn't have the benefit of a guaranteed 4-years in power.

I think in Canada there is a general wish for our leaders to not rock the boat. We've already debated abortion and same-sex marriage, and I think more people would prefer those debates remained closed (even if they don't agree with their outcomes). Canada's whole relationship with change is really interesting - we resist it, but quickly adapt to it once it's done. Sometimes I wonder if anything would get done without the Supreme Court telling us things aren't right. Maybe I'm just a bit cynical.

 

[adma]

Although this is not restricted to the relationship between Conservatives and the West - how many NDP voters in Northern Ontario are actually social democrats?

Or, closer to home, in Peter Kormos' Welland constituency? I reckon a lot of them vote for Kormos out of populism & such, not out of leftism--despite his own positioning within the NDP...

 

[jks]

This has gone off-topic, but isn't the Bloc just a separatist NDP?? Let's face it, their policies are pretty left.

 

[urbanboom]

This has gone off-topic, but isn't the Bloc just a separatist NDP?? Let's face it, their policies are pretty left.

Which is pretty much why the NDP fare so badly in that province. In Quebec, if you're gonna vote left, then you'd vote for the Bloc and not the NDP. If the Bloc were to ever just die, I'd bet that the NDP would do a lot better in their share of parliament.

 

[jks]

Yeah, i know! The greens would fare better too!! Stupid Bloc. It just makes it seem that Quebec is very selfish, because they want their OWN party, to protect their interests. How about we create an Ontario Party of Canada (<<See, that even SOUNDS stupid).
sparatism is so frustrating sometimes =/!

 

[adma]

In Quebec, if you're gonna vote left, then you'd vote for the Bloc and not the NDP.

Or, if you're Anglo, you vote Liberal.

 

[jks]

Well that one BIG generalization! Charest won a majority, and he's Liberal.

 

[Hydrogen]

And I bet the Liberals were supported by lots of Anglos.