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Who would you like to see win the 2016 US election?

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I'm obviously not going to dignify either of the last two posts with a response.

I will, however, call it to the attention of a moderator.

@interchange42
 
The second of the two posts referred to above clearly breached UT's Rules of Conduct re: sexual content and has been removed.

42
 
The quality of conversation on this thread is perhaps the lowest of any I've seen on this forum (though I've deliberately avoided any of the Rob Ford threads).

The difference between the Rob Ford thread and this one, is that literally every single person unanimously agrees that Rob was a terrible mayor. You're not gonna see much vitriol over there caused by difference of opinion.
 
The difference between the Rob Ford thread and this one, is that literally every single person unanimously agrees that Rob was a terrible mayor. You're not gonna see much vitriol over there caused by difference of opinion.
The late mayor of Toronto united many factions of UT into opposing him and his nation of supporters.

This thread though has a good number of Trump supporters, HRC supporters, and Bernie supporters.
 
It looks like there will be no depth to the debate for 2016. Zero questions about policy, the implications of policy, or the suitability of the Republican nominee. This tired old reality show is just getting started...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-for-sex-doll-first-hottie/article29944855/

When Julia Ioffe wrote earlier this month in GQ about interviewing Melania’s until-then unknown half brother in Slovenia and critiqued Mrs. Trump as giving a speech that “sounded like it had been written by her son as a homework assignment,” she was attacked with anti-Semitic rage by “Trump trolls” who sent her images with her face superimposed on concentration camp photos.
 
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The quality of conversation on this thread is perhaps the lowest of any I've seen on this forum (though I've deliberately avoided any of the Rob Ford threads). Is there no one out there in this community who wants to engage in a rational, fact-based discussion about the election?

I think intelligent discussion of the policy ideas in the campaign is a challenge. After all, were one to subject oneself to watch CNN all day, or viewing the nightly national newscasts, one might be under the impression the only issue is whose winning.

The paucity of idea discussion is beyond pathetic, whatever one's politics.

That problem isn't new to this election cycle, nor is it entirely unique to the United States, our election coverage could certainly improve too. That said, at least people here
might remember that Trudeau had in mind to change the child benefit, or that there were questions about how many Syrian refugees to accept and at what pace.

Unless one considers the 'Mexican Wall' to be substantive policy, I don't think there's been much serious discussion.

***

I did subject myself, for the sake of this discussion to reading though the official candidates websites in search of thoughtful platform/manifesto points.

I developed a sudden appreciation of our domestic political parties...........

Discounting Trump for reasons you've waxed eloquent on (though lets throw in some terrible math/realpoltik fantasy issues there as well), the Dems are not without their sins.

I think Sanders has the greatest number of good ideas, but the math is very troublesome.

While Clinton has a real shortage of specifics.

I could only really peg 3 or 4 truly clear policy ideas.

- 12 weeks paid medical leave for new moms at 2/3 income replacement
- $12 minimum wage
- Cutting mandatory minimum sentence in half for non-violent drug offences, and removing non-violent drug offenses from 'three strike' rules.

Good. As far as it goes.

But un-ambitious, to put it charitably.

The U.S. is the only nation in the developed world with no minimum paid vacation requirements, nor do Federal Stat. holidays have to be 'paid days off'.

Unless, I missed it, no paid or even un-paid parental leave (or paternity leave) in her proposals. (side note, we (Canada are among the few countries w/no
paternity leave at all, most developed nations seem to be in the 2/3 week area)

Vague promises on reducing the cost of prescription drugs, but completely lacking in specifics.

No serious proposal to reduce the bloat in the DND.

Not exactly a progressive's dream.

Her key argument (assuming, as appears the case, she is the nominee of the Dems), is simply she is not Trump. Granted, a good start, but wholly uninspired.

Oh, I forgot to mention one small policy proposal of hers I did quite like, which moving to Canada's model of automatic voter registration at age 18.

But again, far from the comprehensive electoral reform that nation needs.

***

The terrible challenge in the U.S. is a system that is so overtly broken; and yet 'fixing' that break is hardly the topic at all in U.S. public discourse.

Clinton is an unfortunate choice for the Dems as she gives them a candidate w/negatives (in polls) that almost approach Trump's.

There were other progressives, including women candidates who might have made a better offering. (that should not be read as an endorsement of the alternative)
 
Lots of great points made in the last post. To the point about disappointing progressives, I'm sure you saw that Hillary has been canvassing for support from moderate Republicans disaffected by the fact that Trump will be the nominee—that's sure to enrage the Bernie supporters Hillary will of course want to hold onto, but I think it's a decent calculation given the nature of the electoral college (blue states are likely to remain blue and swing states, as always, will decide the election).

Ironically, for Democrats (thinking back to Future President Al Gore), it could be the much loathed electoral college that makes them feel safest about their general election prospects. While Hillary's unfavourables are obviously troubling, there have been some good pieces written in the last couple weeks highlighting the massive uphill battle that Trump faces almost purely because of the changing face of demographics in America. Simply, if most demographics vote how they did during the last election, Trump would need to carry all of the demos with which Romney succeeded, and significantly improve results with either or both of Hispanics and African Americans (and, to some extent, women).

That seems extraordinarily unlikely, given his overtly racist comments and policies towards the former group and Hillary's popularity with the latter two. Still, Trump has rewritten many rules of American electoral politics in the last 12 months, so who really knows?!

Here's a decent Slate piece on that dynamic.

And, then, just because it makes me feel good to read, here's a Time piece listing a number of prominent Republicans who to this point have said they will vote for Hillary.
 
The difference between the Rob Ford thread and this one, is that literally every single person unanimously agrees that Rob was a terrible mayor. You're not gonna see much vitriol over there caused by difference of opinion.
Hey I liked Rob Ford, never a dull moment with him at City Hall. I remember when he tried to tackle a CC :). John Tory just isn't the same.

All kidding aside I'm not a Trump supporter but for the reasons mentioned in a few posts, I think Hilary is a horrible choice. I just wish that these adventures in the Middle East and the regime change politics would stop. But even so America is a very much divided country at the moment and with such division comes diversity of opinion and I just wish that we would respect that. Instead we get an intolerant bully provoking and picking on anybody who doesn't agree with him and then goes tattle taling to the moderators when he gets a punch back. What a crybaby!
 
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People the Muslim ban is not happening even if Trump is elected President. Even if it goes the way of an Executive Order, the Supreme Court will surely strike it down. I've heard the conservative argument that the constitution doesn't apply to non citizens with regards to religious freedom but even so the justices are more left leaning and will definitely declare it unconstitutional.

Personally I don't think Trump plans to carry out this ban or even try. This may have been an attempt to gain more publicity.
 
People the Muslim ban is not happening even if Trump is elected President. Even if it goes the way of an Executive Order, the Supreme Court will surely strike it down. I've heard the conservative argument that the constitution doesn't apply to non citizens with regards to religious freedom but even so the justices are more left leaning and will definitely declare it unconstitutional.

Personally I don't think Trump plans to carry out this ban or even try. This may have been an attempt to gain more publicity.

If Trump somehow got in, there is no guarantee that anyone would want to support his ideas. Congress could easily reject him, especially if the Senate flipped to the Democrats. There is even talk of the (heavily gerrymandered) House flipping too. It would be the same as Obama getting nothing done with a GOP controlled Congress.
 
Congress could easily reject him, especially if the Senate flipped to the Democrats. There is even talk of the (heavily gerrymandered) House flipping too.
I imagine many GOP Congresspeople are rather concerned about Trump wrecking the brand entirely.

I have some latent sympathy for the idea of a wall across the Mexican border. I'm surprised it wasn't done decades ago when hundreds of thousands of Mexicans were entering the USA illegally. What's the point in having a border if you won't defend it when it's at risk. As a Brit, until the Chunnel, we always had the Channel and an oft-violent North Sea to keep the borders relatively secure against illegal migrants. If hundreds of thousands of illegals were crossing our rural and undefended border into Canada, I'd like to think the government would have some official policy position on the matter, be it walls or welcoming, or a combo of both. But then I am struck by the hypocrisy of the USA, since it depends on these desperate illegals to do the nasty manual jobs Americans don't or won't do.
 
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