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andreapalladio
Guest
It's a pretty drastic move to go from being a supporter of civil rights to support removing them, which is the extremist policy of Harper and his band of thugs.
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Abeja de Almirante
Guest
Harper's not removing SSM, and we all know that. Harper promised a free vote on the issue, which is what it should have been in the first place. If Martin had simply introduced the SSM motion as a free vote, it would have passed then and there, and the issue would be over. Harper's position is that MPs were forced to vote along the views of their party leaders, and in his view, at least on this issue, that's wrong.It's a pretty drastic move to go from being a supporter of civil rights to support removing them, which is the extremist policy of Harper and his band of thugs.
The vast majority of democratic, free and civil western states do not recognize SSM. I refuse to accept that these are now to be considered thugish, anti-civil rights regimes. Harper promised to have the vote as part of his campaign that got him elected, so he's simply doing what he promised to do. It should not come as any surprise. Though I do think Harper will be glad to get this over with, leave SSM as is, and move onto more important matters like enacting income splitting (which would be great for SSM and hetero couples alike, as now if one person makes $90K and the other makes $10K you pay a lot more income tax as a family than if both make $50K each).
Andrea, I think you're going to have to accept that Harper is going to be Canada's PM for at least the next few years. He may not get a majority in the next election, but the Liberals can not expect much success regardless of Dion's dedication.
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spmarshall
Guest
The motion will not pass. It's a cynical move made in order to throw a bone to the Western and Ontario Bible belts, which is almost all Blue. It's a shame that human rights are being used to do this and segments of the population exploited in moves such as this one.
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Abeja de Almirante
Guest
This was part of his campaign promise. To those who voted for Harper this is more than okay, it's required.No, but he's trying. The fact that he's going to fail makes it okay?
A
Abeja de Almirante
Guest
While I generally support the idea of dual (or more) citizenships for Canadians, IMO, there should be an exception for potential Prime Ministers and leaders of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.And the latest news that Dion holds dual citizenship with France isn't going to help him either, especially since he is refusing to give up his French citizenship and stick with just Canada. Can you imagine the fallout if Harper had held dual citizenship with England and refused to give it up?
What happens if we get into a trade dispute with France and Dion is the PM? You just know that France's President Jacques Chirac will be calling Dion to remember his citizenship with the motherland. I suspect Dion hoped he'd get into the leadership role before this came up.
As they should. The Libs signed Kyoto and then achieved zero, if not negative results against those commitments. Dion is no a champion of the environment.The NDP also has a huge target on Dion, as they are concerned that he may split their base with his new found "green" approach to politics. Every chance they get, they reiterate to the media how green house gas emissions rose considerably under his watch as Environment minister, how he gave large subsidies to the oil and gas companies... etc.. etc... ad nauseum.
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Brighter Hell
Guest
No, but he's trying. The fact that he's going to fail makes it okay?Harper's not removing SSM, and we all know that.
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nicetommy2002
Guest
The Liberals made a huge mistake in choosing Dion. I'll be quite surprised if he is able to pull it off in the next election. His performance during question period in his first day as Leader of the Opposition was surprisingly weak, especially when contrasted with Ignatieff's performance. The Liberals should have picked someone who could easily take on Harper. Dion is certainly not that person.
The NDP also has a huge target on Dion, as they are concerned that he may split their base with his new found "green" approach to politics. Every chance they get, they reiterate to the media how green house gas emissions rose considerably under his watch as Environment minister, how he gave large subsidies to the oil and gas companies... etc.. etc... ad nauseum.
And the latest news that Dion holds dual citizenship with France isn't going to help him either, especially since he is refusing to give up his French citizenship and stick with just Canada. Can you imagine the fallout if Harper had held dual citizenship with England and refused to give it up?
I hope the Liberals are able to get a grip on things, and not f**k things up like they did during the last election. My prediction is that Harper will win another minority, and the Liberals will go back to elect yet another new leader [hopefully getting it right next time]
The NDP also has a huge target on Dion, as they are concerned that he may split their base with his new found "green" approach to politics. Every chance they get, they reiterate to the media how green house gas emissions rose considerably under his watch as Environment minister, how he gave large subsidies to the oil and gas companies... etc.. etc... ad nauseum.
And the latest news that Dion holds dual citizenship with France isn't going to help him either, especially since he is refusing to give up his French citizenship and stick with just Canada. Can you imagine the fallout if Harper had held dual citizenship with England and refused to give it up?
I hope the Liberals are able to get a grip on things, and not f**k things up like they did during the last election. My prediction is that Harper will win another minority, and the Liberals will go back to elect yet another new leader [hopefully getting it right next time]
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building babel
Guest
>Re: Who will be the next Liberal leader.
Gay and lesbian relationships have been treated as common law for income tax purposes for some time now: several couples I know, with different income levels, have come forward and registered. And many of us have been receiving CPP pensions from our late partners for several years; next year we may see retroactive CPP benefits going back to 1986 for many other gays who lost partners before 1998 during the AIDS plague. With marriage rights expanded too, it will be difficult for the homophobes - hiding behind their friendly-sounding "free" vote - to put the genie back in the bottle. The "free" vote thing is mostly grandstanding for the benefit of core voters, but it sends a generalized message to other, less politically organized groups: defend your rights, we may be coming for you too.
Nobody here has described western democracies who haven't moved as far, or as fast, as Canada in these regards as "thuggish, anti-civil rights regimes".
Gay and lesbian relationships have been treated as common law for income tax purposes for some time now: several couples I know, with different income levels, have come forward and registered. And many of us have been receiving CPP pensions from our late partners for several years; next year we may see retroactive CPP benefits going back to 1986 for many other gays who lost partners before 1998 during the AIDS plague. With marriage rights expanded too, it will be difficult for the homophobes - hiding behind their friendly-sounding "free" vote - to put the genie back in the bottle. The "free" vote thing is mostly grandstanding for the benefit of core voters, but it sends a generalized message to other, less politically organized groups: defend your rights, we may be coming for you too.
Nobody here has described western democracies who haven't moved as far, or as fast, as Canada in these regards as "thuggish, anti-civil rights regimes".
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Abeja de Almirante
Guest
I imagine the socon religious groups are saying exactly this, as they see their right to refuse to conduct SSM, hire gay clergy and refuse gay volunteers in Sunday School, etc...as a definite target of upcoming Charter challenges.but it sends a generalized message to other, less politically organized groups: defend your rights, we may be coming for you too.
Regardless of the socons, you're comments are correct. We must always be prepared to resist government supported tirany, corruption, excessive interference and abuse...this is what keeps democracy working.
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fiendishlibrarian
Guest
Re: >Re: Who will be the next Liberal leader.
What's with all these tax and pension goodies for people in couples, straight or gay? I want my single-loser-drink-too-much tax break, dammit. I have rights too.
Don't I?
What's with all these tax and pension goodies for people in couples, straight or gay? I want my single-loser-drink-too-much tax break, dammit. I have rights too.
Don't I?
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building babel
Guest
Re: >Re: Who will be the next Liberal leader.
I kinda agree, fiendish.
If someone had told us, back in the winter of 1977 for instance when we were freezing our asses off at that demonstration against Anita Bryant outside the church at Sheppard and Bayview, that the culmination of our protests would be the bourgeois, assimilationist right to marry and adopt kids - I'd have said they were crazy.
We thought we were fighting for the right to be single and slutty.
I kinda agree, fiendish.
If someone had told us, back in the winter of 1977 for instance when we were freezing our asses off at that demonstration against Anita Bryant outside the church at Sheppard and Bayview, that the culmination of our protests would be the bourgeois, assimilationist right to marry and adopt kids - I'd have said they were crazy.
We thought we were fighting for the right to be single and slutty.
F
fiendishlibrarian
Guest
Re: >Re: Who will be the next Liberal leader.
I'm still fighting for slutty. Ain't getting me nowhere, no how.
I'm still fighting for slutty. Ain't getting me nowhere, no how.
B
building babel
Guest
Re: >Re: Who will be the next Liberal leader.
Abeja: Socially conservative religious groups are precisely those who are behind the present anti-rights initiative. When we protested against them in the 1970's ( see above ) few of us then would have believed it possible that they would form a government in Canada 30 years later, though they have.
Abeja: Socially conservative religious groups are precisely those who are behind the present anti-rights initiative. When we protested against them in the 1970's ( see above ) few of us then would have believed it possible that they would form a government in Canada 30 years later, though they have.
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Abeja de Almirante
Guest
Re: >Re: Who will be the next Liberal leader.
Canada has quickly become a very open minded, socially far left country, where almost any activity is permissable and celebrated. Those that value the perceived national attitude and social order they grew up with in the post-WW2 period have a right to be upset, and to promote the protection of what they hold dear. IMO, to the socially conservative person, personal rights do not surpass societal norms (hetero, intra-race only marriages, strong crime and punishment views, European-only immigration, importance of church, low taxation, etc...) as in their minds it was the societal norms that defined the nation. Now, socially liberal folks have an equal right to protest and promote the rapid social changes they want, and they have the perogative to call any changes they want "rights" and thus demand Charter challenges, etc.. That's what great about Canada, the people get to vote for the party that supports their view.
If you don't like Harper and the Conservatives, then don't vote for them.
Every movement, right or wrong, has its opposite view. Well, the tables have turned on the conservative religious groups, and I suppose they don't like it.Abeja: Socially conservative religious groups are precisely those who are behind the present anti-rights initiative.
Canada has quickly become a very open minded, socially far left country, where almost any activity is permissable and celebrated. Those that value the perceived national attitude and social order they grew up with in the post-WW2 period have a right to be upset, and to promote the protection of what they hold dear. IMO, to the socially conservative person, personal rights do not surpass societal norms (hetero, intra-race only marriages, strong crime and punishment views, European-only immigration, importance of church, low taxation, etc...) as in their minds it was the societal norms that defined the nation. Now, socially liberal folks have an equal right to protest and promote the rapid social changes they want, and they have the perogative to call any changes they want "rights" and thus demand Charter challenges, etc.. That's what great about Canada, the people get to vote for the party that supports their view.
If you don't like Harper and the Conservatives, then don't vote for them.
B
building babel
Guest
Re: >Re: Who will be the next Liberal leader.
... and if you do, be aware of the agenda you're therefore supporting.
... and if you do, be aware of the agenda you're therefore supporting.