Where is "downtown Toronto"?

[kkgg7]

I would include the area between Front Street and Lake Ontario as well, especially with all the new 200m+ towers going up there.

downtown =/= condo jungle, to be part of downtown, there has to be either many office buildings or sizable retail (a sobey's or Loblaws doesn't qualify). Having tall but pure residential buildings makes no difference.
Anything south of Front street, especially south of Gardiner, is not downtown.

 

[Jonny5]

Must. Resist. Troll bait.

Let's agree that Petula Clark already settled this question. It's where the neon signs are.

[video=youtube;FKCnHWas3HQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKCnHWas3HQ[/video]

Petula would approve of this.

I get a downtown feeling when I am on a street that's focused heavily on shopping and entertainment, with an urban built form and a feeling of being central or a destination.

In Toronto I get the downtown feeling on Yonge Street from Queen all the way to the CPR line, Bloor Street from Sherbourne to Bathurst, Queen and King from Jarvis(ish) to Niagara(ish) and, interestingly, on Yonge from Davisville to Blythwood(ish). Yonge and Eg has a very strong "central" feeling.

Proximity to tall buildings doesn't do it for me. The Financial District doesn't engender a feeling like described in the song. It's corporate, sterile and too quiet off hours. That's changing with some more restaurants opening on the ground level of the towers, but the are not enough yet to make it feel like a destination.

EDIT: The Church street village gets a nod too. It has a very downtown feel.

 

[brianmac]

It depends on where you live -- I don't consider myself living downtown, and I wouldn't think of Leslieville or Cabbagetown as downtown, either. To me, downtown = office towers, not single family homes. So, my downtown stops at Spadina, not Bathurst; Dundas, not Bloor; Church or Jarvis, not the Don.

Oh I'm totally with you, I just thought it was an interesting discussion of what makes an area downtown. I think of Leslieville because like Ossington and Dundas West, despite being mostly residential there is a downtown vibe to the streets, yet when I get the beaches I think nah, I'm in the beaches. Yonge and Eglington, no way it's downtown. I was struck the other day by what a great little street Markham is, sort of a mini, mini, mini St Denis. You walk along Queen east of Broadway and it's a downtown street, the restaurants and stores
http://www.blogto.com/toronto/the_best_vintage_furniture_stores_in_toronto/ are no question have more in common with "downtown" than Sheppard and Yonge for example.

Much like Bloor street, it never feels like it's downtown, walking along Bloor west of Spadina, it feels like The Annex, not downtown, yet you hop down to College/Ossington totally different.

What I will say is I love the fact that we have a growing number of great neighborhoods in Toronto, from strength to strength.

 

[Red October]

downtown =/= condo jungle, to be part of downtown, there has to be either many office buildings or sizable retail (a sobey's or Loblaws doesn't qualify). Having tall but pure residential buildings makes no difference.
Anything south of Front street, especially south of Gardiner, is not downtown.

Um.. wut?

Southcore and the Waterfront are absolutely part of Downtown.

 

[OttoSchloss]

Anything north of Bloor feels uptown for me -it's where Yonge Street improves and loses the dinge quality. But also the street begins to incline upward.

 

[Mongo]

downtown =/= condo jungle, to be part of downtown, there has to be either many office buildings or sizable retail (a sobey's or Loblaws doesn't qualify). Having tall but pure residential buildings makes no difference.
Anything south of Front street, especially south of Gardiner, is not downtown.

Toronto Star building
Telus House
Waterpark Place North
Waterpartk Place South
MLS podium (as much office space as a medium-sized tower)
18 York
Bremner Tower
future 16 York
future 90 Harbour office tower
future Waterpark Place III
future 45 Bay
probable future 60 Harbour office tower

Even by your ridiculously narrow definition, Southcore counts as part of downtown.

 

[44 North]

It's safe to say that all the city's anti-downtown vitriol is aimed more towards Old Toronto.

So since amalgamation, "downtown" has become a moniker for Old Toronto. I guess this would include everything out to Vic Park.

 

[nfitz]

It depends on where you live -- I don't consider myself living downtown, and I wouldn't think of Leslieville or Cabbagetown as downtown, either. To me, downtown = office towers, not single family homes. So, my downtown stops at Spadina, not Bathurst; Dundas, not Bloor; Church or Jarvis, not the Don.

I agree. It's all relative though. When I'm in Toronto, I don't consider I live downtown.

But try explaining where you are to someone from beyond 905, who thinks everything from Burlington to Oshawa to Newmarket is Toronto - then walking distance to the Danforth is downtown.

 

[Red October]

It depends on where you live -- I don't consider myself living downtown, and I wouldn't think of Leslieville or Cabbagetown as downtown, either. To me, downtown = office towers, not single family homes. So, my downtown stops at Spadina, not Bathurst; Dundas, not Bloor; Church or Jarvis, not the Don.

Bloor isn't downtown?????

So you're telling me this should not be included in downtown?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=bloor+and+yonge&hl=en&ll=43.670076,-79.387658&spn=0.006123,0.009645&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=46.340694,79.013672&vpsrc=0&hnear=Yonge+St+%26+Bloor+St+W,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.670061,-79.387734&panoid=ioLshQKW6tH1wjlp7m3C5g&cbp=12,257.21,,0,1.9

 

[kkgg7]

Toronto Star building
Telus House
Waterpark Place North
Waterpartk Place South
MLS podium (as much office space as a medium-sized tower)
18 York
Bremner Tower
future 16 York
future 90 Harbour office tower
future Waterpark Place III
future 45 Bay
probable future 60 Harbour office tower

Even by your ridiculously narrow definition, Southcore counts as part of downtown.

Too many "future"s and hardly any retail/entertainment. Just curious, is there a single movie theatre in your so-called "south core"? A department store? How many people actually visit the "south core" in January if they don't work there?

 

[Jonny5]

How many people actually visit the "south core" in January if they don't work there?

A couple hundred thousand. They go to the ACC.

 

[Palma]

Bloor isn't downtown?????

So you're telling me this should not be included in downtown?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=bloor+and+yonge&hl=en&ll=43.670076,-79.387658&spn=0.006123,0.009645&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=46.340694,79.013672&vpsrc=0&hnear=Yonge+St+%26+Bloor+St+W,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.670061,-79.387734&panoid=ioLshQKW6tH1wjlp7m3C5g&cbp=12,257.21,,0,1.9

Bloor is definitely downtown which is why most people consider everything south of Bloor downtown. You will always hear expressions like "South of Bloor" etc. Bloor to Eglinton is midtown to me and then north of Eglinton I consider uptown. The character does change. But it’s true that downtown is not about tall buildings but as others have said neighborhoods, attractions, retail. Its about being able to walk for most day to day things - shopping, banking, butcher, bakery, parks, restaurants, major attractions and not feel like you are walking an eternity and getting no where. - like the suburbs feel.

 

[King of Kensington]

In the 1970s, "central area" was coined for the Bathurst/Don/CPR/Rosedale Valley zone - this is a more broad definition. They also had a more narrowly defined downtown (roughly below College down to the Gardiner from University/Simcoe/John to Jarvis) and midtown (College up to Bloor/Yorkville). In a way, it gives us two (interconnected) "downtowns" akin to Manhattan (Downtown/Midtown) and Chicago (Loop/Near North).

I would say downtown is roughly University/Queen's Park/Avenue Rd. (above Queen)/Spadina (below Queen) to Jarvis, up to and including Yorkville, is pretty apt for a comparative definition. This would give Toronto the 3rd biggest downtown population in North America after NYC/Chicago.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

kkgg7:

I am starting to notice a pattern with the threads you start - it tends to be like this:

Step 1: Pick a topic that is relatively well known/defined
Step 2: State your (usually) contrarian position
Step 3: Ask others what they think.
Step 4: Proceed to tell everyone why they're wrong and you're right in the snarkiest manner possible.

At this rate, I think we'll write Step 5 for you, and you won't like it - because there won't be a Step 6

And to the point at hand - who really cares, other than someone who needed an exact definition for some specific (and often bureaucratic) purposes which will always end up not quite inclusive or correct to others. The boundaries of downtown is just one of these things that varies from individual to individual - especially on the basis of where they're from. And if it floats ones' boat, here is the def from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown

AoD

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Bloor isn't downtown.

Bloor isn't downtown?????

So you're telling me this should not be included in downtown?

I understand that BMO/Manulife/Rogers have offices on Bloor. There's an office tower beside the shopping mall at Lawrence West station, and it's not downtown, either.

Since you didn't like my last definition, how 'bout this: downtown is where you can get out at Union Station and reasonably walk to your business or pleasure. So, Southcore/ACC/Rogers are definitely downtown, despite being south of the tracks. Taking PATH or Yonge, you can be at Yonge/Dundas square in a reasonable time frame. But, if you're going to the CNE/Distillery/Yorkville, it's a hike and probably new leg of transportation.

Here's another take: Ryerson is a downtown campus. So is George Brown. UofT is most definitely not.

Here's another: City Hall is downtown, as are St. Mike's/Old City Hall/Massey/Roy Thomson. Queen's Park is midtown. As is Toronto Gen/MARs/Sick Kids.