ibhattac
New Member
Agreed. Just fold space and time, it's pretty simple folks.Agree
where's inspector spacetime when you need him.
Agreed. Just fold space and time, it's pretty simple folks.Agree
I agree also with the price elasticity issue. Even before i read your post about choosing to walk if TTC fares rise too much I was thinking the same thing when I read the other poster saying if you live downtown the TTC can charge whatever they want and those people will pay because they have no choice. He obviously does not know the downtown area very well.
How can you look at those numbers and conclude that TTC is more expensive? A one-station subway ride in London is $5.20 compared to $3.00 here. A long ride in London is $9.10 in London compared to $3.00. A one-station token/card ride in London is $2.47 almost the same as here ($2.50), however a long token/card ride in London is $7.80 compared to $2.50 here. How can you possibly conclude London is cheaper. Perhaps if you took the bus for very long trips maybe ... but people don't do that in London, with such an extensive rail network. They tend to get used for local trips.as you can see, ttc is more expensive than London's tube. London is one of the most expensive cities in the world, and the london underground has 11 lines (compared with 2 for TTC) and covers 400 kms, 9-10 times of ttc subway.
You should have seen it 10-years ago before Ken Livingstone. It's state-of-repair was very poor. They've invested heavily in it over the last decade, pretty much rebuilding the entire thing - a process that will continue for another 5-10 years.Among the subway systems I have taken, London is probably the most efficient/convenient one.
where's inspector spacetime when you need him.
One thing is clear here: whoever argue against fare by distance system must live far from work and know they are not paying enough but would prefer short commuters keep subsidizing them.
One thing is clear here: whoever argue against fare by distance system must live far from work and know they are not paying enough but would prefer short commuters keep subsidizing them.
Thanks Palma. You seem to be one of those who advocate what is right and fair, instead of "what is best for me".
One thing is clear here: whoever argue against fare by distance system must live far from work and know they are not paying enough but would prefer short commuters keep subsidizing them.
Thanks Palma. You seem to be one of those who advocate what is right and fair, instead of "what is best for me".
Are you saying people who live in one area of the city and work in another are at fault for not finding a job close to home that requires a larger subsidizing from short trippers??
Are these riders responsible for companies that have relocated to other area that were close to them in the first place??
Who is responsible for chasing local business from the waterfront as well in the centre core to the suburbs and the 905, that requires riders to travel longer trips, as well spending more travel time to get there??
Who is responsible for housing to leap frog from cheap housing cost to high income, where riders who make low wages are force to relocate to another area not of their choosing to make end meet and have to travel farther to get to work??
Do you realize that the quality of service and the type of service is based on long haulers, not the short hauler??
Until the zone system was removed in 1972, TTC made a profit off the backs of the long hauler who got poor service in their zone outside the city core.
What are the boundaries of the flat fare zone, zone 1, zone 2 zone 3????
Given the fact that most business are operated by the long haulers and low wage incomers, who going to have that nice coffee/food ready for the short haulers if they stop showing up for work??
Don't you think long haulers time is worth something, since they will spend 2-4 times more riding the system than the short haulers??
As a short hauler, are you prepare to pay the full cost of your rider including all capital cost and operating cost?? If you are, be prepare for that sticker price, as your fare will be a killer.
I live near a frequent streetcar line, and subway station, and an OK bus line. My commutes are short, and I know I subsidize suburban riders. I could care less, I have transport options, many people in the suburbs do not. You force them to pay more, because you think it's not "fair" that those of us with lots of travel options are helping them use transit, and they will drive. It's not that hard to understand.
I understand everything you said, yet it doesn't change a thing. Being poor doesn't mean you are entitled to purchase the same goods or services at a lower price, right? You pay the market price nevertheless. So what's the point of bringing out the low wage argument? Will VIA give you 30% discount for being a low income earner when you travel? No. Why you have to live far from work, who is responsible for that, totally irrelevant. You are purchasing a service, and you pay for the quantity you buy. If you think it is too expensive, don't buy it. If you think fare is too high, move closer to work then. If you say you can't afford the location, may I repeat for the 10 times, sacrifice the space. Get rid of the yard, dining room, livingroom or just live in a condo.
In term of paying "all the capital and operating cost", apparently none of us is paying 100%. Some money comes from government funding. Yet for the remaining fare revenue, it still needs to be fair: charge based on how much you consume. If you travel far, you pay more, simple as that. Whether you make 10K or 100K is completely irrelevant. Can you get a bottle of beer for 20% less if you show you are poor?
For the government funding part, the financially welloff population already paid a larger share than the poor folks, thus already contributing more to our public transit. So stop thinking "I am poor, so I should pay less for everything".
For myself, how high TTC fare is does almost nothing to me whatsoever. Even if one trip costs $10, it has minimum impact on me since I take it for like 5 times a month. So I have not being arguing for my own benefits. I am arguing for what is the right thing to do without unfairly treating any interest groups. Negatively impacting certain groups doesn't mean unfair treatment.
There are many cheap pockets in/near downtown with excellent transit coverage.