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News Roundup for August 23, 2024
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Wente: The war against the car will never succeed

"That's why I refuse to work in the suburbs."

Fine for you, but not everyone has that choice. Most people must live and/or work in the suburbs...it's that simple.
 
^ They must live there?

I pity all these people who have absolutely no choice in their lives.

How is it that millions of people live AND work in downtown Toronto, or within accessible distance to the subways. Is it dumb luck, or do they make a choice to live and work there?

Why is it that house prices go up as you get closer to downtown Toronto, and yet they still sell? Because people choose to live and work there.

In reality, this "no choice" affliction you allude to is in reality car ads and suburban developers pushing the attitude that life is only good if you live in the suburbs and drive cars... so the many many sheep-like people in this world do just that, and think they have no choice.

My wife and I chose to live within easy access of downtown (we're over by Little India), and we chose our jobs because they were downtown (mine) or uptown (hers).

We chose to be way happier than our suburban friends who spend their lives in traffic jams, and all their money on car-related and suburban-house expenses.

Are we the only ones who have had those choices? No. It's THAT simple.
 
Come to think of it, the simpliest way to deal with the issue is probably restricting the availablity of parking everywhere, since the ability to park the car seems to constitute a good part of the convinence factor. Take that away, and the hassle of having to find a parking spot everywhere you go (or having to pay for it) will make it a rather nasty transportation option.

And keep in mind, the ability to regulate parking exists on the city level, and it's far more subtle than say, road pricing.

AoD
 
People will make whatever life style choices they want so i think this discussion of what way is best at a personal level doesn't get us anywhere. My problem with Wente's article is that she is appealing to the sentiment that investment in public transit is a waste of money. But investment in say clean fuels and Intelligent Transportation Systems won't reduce our need for massive investment in public transit infrastructure to service the future needs of the city region. With every new driver we add to the city the commuting time increases for everyone, with every public transit rider there is potential for commuting time decreases as service levels can be increased. The car will always remain king in this and most if not every city on earth but the likely scenerio is that in many areas of the city the next few decades will see a tiping point where driving commutes will become unattractive. How prepared will we be?
 
How is it that millions of people live AND work in downtown Toronto, or within accessible distance to the subways. Is it dumb luck, or do they make a choice to live and work there?
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It's because they have $500,000 to spend on a townhouse.
 
^ That's pretty restricted thinking. Our condo (which is big enough for the 2 of us until we have kids, at which time we'll get a bigger condo or small house in Toronto) was a fraction of 500,000 ... and there are things called mortgages which let you put as little as 5% down to live where you want.
 
I'm sorry, but a person making $60,000 a year can't afford a $500,000+ home. It may surprise you, but that's considered middle class. A $200,000 condo is fine for a couple, but try raising three kids in there.
 
It's a pretty fallacious argument to claim that the only option for those wishing to live close to transit must pay $500,000 for a townhouse. A quick look at the MLS shows that there are plenty of 3 bedroom detached homes available for under $400,000 near the Danforth, for example. Once you factor in ownership of one less car (you can still have one), a shorter commute, and improved quality of live, it's a bargain!

Given the absurd cost of car ownership, even cutting back from two to one per household frees up a lot of cash to spend on a nice house. My fiance and I were thinking of getting a car, but with a $300 car payment, $200 in gas, at least $300 in insurance, and maintenance costs, it quickly becomes obvious that car ownership is a losing proposition.
 
DDA:

Implicit in the argument put forth is a classic North American phenomeon - that somehow raising kids in a high rise environment is inviable, as if those grew up berefit of a front lawn or a large room will suffer from some unspecified developmental issues.

They won't.

AoD
 
and there are things called mortgages which let you put as little as 5% down to live where you want.
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And those things are completely dependent on salary and your ability to make payments. 5% down is still a lot of money, nevermind all the hidden costs, lawyer fees, property taxes and so on. Even if one can afford the payments, getting everything approved and set up in the first place is a huge financial hurdle.

Anyway, if choosing to live downtown or wherever else one wants is such a simple choice, why have hundreds of thousands of immigrants over the last 30+ years chosen to live in Etobicoke, Scarborough, Mississauga, Brampton, etc.? And not necessarily even in the nicer areas! Nobody chooses to live in a run-down commieblock on the outskirts of town.
 
When we have kids we'll get something bigger... no problem. Neither of us make a lot, but we're smart with what we do make - such as not paying the avg. $9000/year for a car (according to the CAA).

Do you realize that the average two-car family in the suburbs pays $18,000/year in car-related costs? Over a 30-year career (say, age 30 - 60), that's $540,000, AFTER taxes.

I can think of many many better things to spend half a million dollars on than pissing it away on cars and gas.
 
Nobody chooses to live in a run-down commieblock on the outskirts of town.
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There are plenty of these "commieblocks" throughout North York, Scarborugh and Etobicoke that are not government housing. And, yes people do choose to live in them.
 
There are plenty of these "commieblocks" throughout North York, Scarborugh and Etobicoke that are not government housing. And, yes people do choose to live in them.
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Right, but are they necessarily near rapid/frequent transit? Are they in nice neighbourhoods?

I meant people don't choose to live there in the sense of really wanting to; they choose to live there since their options are limited. I wasn't thinking of government housing.
 
I'd like to live in the penthouse of the new Four Seasons. Unfortunately I won't be as my options are limited.

Don Mills from Sheppard to Finch is pretty nice and close to transit. I know people that live in some of these towers. They like living there.
 
AoD, the problem isn't with highrise living per se. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of units being built today are one bedroom. Two bedrooms are rare, and to get more than that one must almost invariably go to an outrageously priced penthouse. That's just not an option for a middle-income family with multiple children, no matter how much they might save on cars.
 
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