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Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

nfitz said:
And good grief - if Quebec transit agencies can supplementally handle Presto cards for transfers - then surely GRT, partially funded by Ontario, should have been able to do it.
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To be fair, only STO has done this. And they have a completely separate fare system from the rest of Quebec which uses Opus. And Presto is only usable on STO with a monthly pass stored onboard and a transfer after tapping on OC Transpo. Pay-per-trip is not possible to be initiated on STO.

I do agree that it's bollocks that GRT was not compelled to use Presto by the province, while Ottawa was put through hell converting over. Especially crazy when Waterloo is so close to the GTA.
 
LNahid2000 said:
This is done on purpose due to the line being POP. Otherwise, people could just tap their card when they see a fare inspector!
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So instead, you are supposed to risk missing the infrequent streetcar, because someone has a pickle up their butt about fare enforcement, and has chosen to make it inconvenient?

Which could be simply mitigated by allowing for credit/debit cards to tap on platforms - rather than having to start fare transactions. Which seems totally bizarre given how precious GRT was, because Presto couldn't support the things they needed ... yet they don't actually seem to have implemented!

kEiThZ said:
... while Ottawa was put through hell converting over.
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Though if I recall, Ottawa volunteered surprisingly early - long before others were voluntold!
 
The purpose of off-board fare payment is to enable faster boarding and shorter dwell times, not fare enforcement as far as I know. Same as the subway or GO trains (can you imagine the chaos if you could tap your Presto card after boarding the subway!).
 
nfitz said:
Though if I recall, Ottawa volunteered surprisingly early - long before others were voluntold!
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If I'm not mistaken LRT funding was contingent on the adoption of Presto. Ottawa would not have chosen Presto if not pressed by Queen's Park. STO's Multicard would have made more sense for us. Or even the Opus card from Quebec, since there is a lot of traffic between Ottawa and Montreal. As it stands, Ottawa is the only transit agency outside the GTA using Presto. A particularly bizarre situation where every other system is closer to us than Presto, where the nearest other agency is 400 km away. It's always struck me as odd that there's no plan to convert over the small-medium transit services weren't compelled to switch over. Presto would be a hell of a lot more useful if at minimum it covered all the transit systems that VIA Corridor services and GO connected with.
 
nfitz said:
What a fail. You should be able to just tap your credit card.

And good grief - if Quebec transit agencies can supplementally handle Presto cards for transfers - then surely GRT, partially funded by Ontario, should have been able to do it.

And really - there's no way of paying your fare on board - even with a GRT fare card?
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They currently don't support open payments yet. It's on the list of things to support in a future phase of the fare card program. As for why you can't pay on board, there's no room for a full ticket vending machine as unlike the TTC Flexities there are doors on both sides of the train.
 
nfitz said:
For Toronto in the 2010s. Ottawa had signed onto Presto long before this ever came up.
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Not to get too far off-topic...but I recall this:


And whether it was public or not, I long suspect that there was at least an implicit requirement to adopt Presto for LRT funding. The strange part here is that Ottawa is so far from the GTA, while KWC is in the commuter shed of Toronto and GRT was not compelled to do so.
 
Remember operating presto does cost an arm and a leg. What did ML want? Something like 10-15% of the fare plus really expensive fare readers that aren't reliable. I think any city isn't forced to use it will opt out.
 
kEiThZ said:
Not to get too far off-topic...but I recall this:


And whether it was public or not, I long suspect that there was at least an implicit requirement to adopt Presto for LRT funding. The strange part here is that Ottawa is so far from the GTA, while KWC is in the commuter shed of Toronto and GRT was not compelled to do so.
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Though this was years after OC Transpo started pursuing Presto - I expect the minister was twisting things slightly. Ottawa was only partially funded by Ontario, just like the Waterloo Ion and Toronto Line 1 extension - neither of which required signing on to Presto.
 
nfitz said:
Though this was years after OC Transpo started pursuing Presto - I expect the minister was twisting things slightly. Ottawa was only partially funded by Ontario, just like the Waterloo Ion and Toronto Line 1 extension - neither of which required signing on to Presto.
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Steve X said:
Remember operating presto does cost an arm and a leg. What did ML want? Something like 10-15% of the fare plus really expensive fare readers that aren't reliable. I think any city isn't forced to use it will opt out.
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Agreed. I really don't think Ottawa would have signed on if it had any real say on the matter. It just makes no sense. All that said, it makes even less sense to not have it imposed on transit services (with transition paid for my Queen's Park) on transit services within a 3 hr radius of Union like Barrie, London, Kingston and Waterloo.
 
kEiThZ said:
Agreed. I really don't think Ottawa would have signed on if it had any real say on the matter. It just makes no sense. All that said, it makes even less sense to not have it imposed on transit services (with transition paid for my Queen's Park) on transit services within a 3 hr radius of Union like Barrie, London, Kingston and Waterloo.
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Integration is key. If you want people to use transit when they travel, you better make it convenient for them. Having all the transit systems under 1 fare payment method is only a good thing: it will allow users to use their transit cards anywhere in the region, thereby making transit a much more attractive alternative.
 
kEiThZ said:
Agreed. I really don't think Ottawa would have signed on if it had any real say on the matter.
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That's not the impression we had when we were discussing Ottawa's recommendation to join Presto in 2007, in the Presto thread.

It looks entirely voluntary to me. It was called the Greater Toronto Area Fare System back then. What indication was there in 2007 that this was not voluntary.

 
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