micheal_can
Senior Member
Does the GO terminal connect to ION?
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Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)
jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
Not yet. But it is just a walk down the street right now. The new Transit hub won't be built for a number of years.
idc24
Active Member
W. K. Lis
Superstar
steveintoronto
Superstar
There's more to it than that. It's Provincial, since only one of those signals is attributed under the HTA, and the TTC already uses if in a different way.
@KevinT @reaperexpress would have more details.
Don't get me wrong, the King Street Project could certainly use those and more, but the story is a bit more complex than it seems.
rbt
Senior Member
Those are still provincially illegal signals aren't they? IIRC, Ion received a special exemption for a trial.
downtownordinary
Active Member
I swear I've seen those lights at King and Cherry/Sumach heading east. I'll try and take a picture next time I go by.
raptor
Senior Member
I've also seen a similar light for Viva buses turning left from Hwy 7 to Keele before the latest rapidway section opened.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Viva has these at Jane, Keele, and Town Centre.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Oddly, you're half right! The HTA only sanctions the *vertical white bar"...not the horizontal. I wish it were otherwise. And yes, K/W must have got a provincial exemption or waiver, I've searched many times, can't find it, but they also have Transport Canada waiver(s) due to being connected to a Class 1 track spur.
Exception – white vertical bar indication
(19.1) Despite subsection (18), a driver operating a bus or street car on a scheduled transit authority route approaching a traffic control signal showing a white vertical bar indication may, with caution, proceed forward or turn right or left. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (13).
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08
(2) Green arrow, amber arrow, circular green, circular amber, circular red and white vertical bar indications may be used for traffic control signals and, where they are used, they shall be arranged vertically from the bottom, as follows:
right turn green arrow, right turn amber arrow, left turn green arrow, left turn amber arrow, straight through green arrow, circular green, circular amber, circular red and white vertical bar.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900626
@reaperexpress and I have had extensive discussions on this in the King Pilot string. But the point stands that if K/W can have this, why not Toronto?
No matter how you slice the logic, Toronto hasn't even tried to go the extra step to get what she could have gotten. With Ford at the controls, the track can only turn right in ever tightening circles...
Addendum: Took another Google stab at finding more, none showed, but this did:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/traffic-changes-lrt-kitchener-waterloo-1.3937873
Too rad for Toronto!
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
The reason Waterloo's signals HTA non-compliant has nothing to do with the white vertical bar. As @steveintoronto has noted, the use of the white bar indication conforms to the current HTA definition ("transit vehicles have the right of way when travelling left, straight or right"). In this case, ION appears to have adopted a more restrictive definition of "straight along the tracks only" to allow parallel movements to move simultaneously.
The HTA violations of the signals are rather to do with the lack of green, amber and red, as well as the placement at intersections:
HTA Regulation 626
1. (1) Every traffic control signal shall consist of one circular amber and one circular red indication in combination with,
(a) a circular green indication;
(b) a circular green indication and one or more green arrow indications;
(c) a circular green indication, one or more green arrow indications and one or more amber arrow indications; or
(d) one or more green arrow indications. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (1).
(4) Every traffic control signal system that is installed shall have at least two traffic control signals located on the far side of the intersection from which vehicles are approaching, at least one of which shall be located on the far right side. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (4).
(emphasis added)
As you are well aware, all TTC streetcars and buses are equipped with radio transponders to trigger the 400 signals equipped with Transit Signal Priority (TSP). It remains to be seen whether ION's TSP is more or less effective than the TTC's. Now that TSP is back on in the King Pilot, I encourage you to stand around one of the TSP-equipped intersections and note the proportion of streetcars which get red lights, then consider that each light is red about 50% of the time. I watched streetcars King & John for half an hour and in that time only one late streetcar got a red light. Without TSP that should have been about fifteen.
Ah, W.K. Yet again your baseless and indiscriminate accusations make you look like a fool, because in reality Transportation Services has been arguing IN FAVOUR of a greater use of white-bar transit signals.
The HTA violations of the signals are rather to do with the lack of green, amber and red, as well as the placement at intersections:
HTA Regulation 626
1. (1) Every traffic control signal shall consist of one circular amber and one circular red indication in combination with,
(a) a circular green indication;
(b) a circular green indication and one or more green arrow indications;
(c) a circular green indication, one or more green arrow indications and one or more amber arrow indications; or
(d) one or more green arrow indications. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (1).
(4) Every traffic control signal system that is installed shall have at least two traffic control signals located on the far side of the intersection from which vehicles are approaching, at least one of which shall be located on the far right side. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (4).
(emphasis added)
As you are well aware, all TTC streetcars and buses are equipped with radio transponders to trigger the 400 signals equipped with Transit Signal Priority (TSP). It remains to be seen whether ION's TSP is more or less effective than the TTC's. Now that TSP is back on in the King Pilot, I encourage you to stand around one of the TSP-equipped intersections and note the proportion of streetcars which get red lights, then consider that each light is red about 50% of the time. I watched streetcars King & John for half an hour and in that time only one late streetcar got a red light. Without TSP that should have been about fifteen.
Ah, W.K. Yet again your baseless and indiscriminate accusations make you look like a fool, because in reality Transportation Services has been arguing IN FAVOUR of a greater use of white-bar transit signals.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
@KevinT and @reaperexpress or anyone else availed of the details:
Is the ION 'light changing priority' an over-ride no matter where the approaching signals are in their cycle, or is it a 'cycle extension' priority?
That could/would be a major difference of the King Pilot v the ION model.
Cross post this to King Pilot string.
KevinT
Active Member
The radio chatter during my drive to work was that 505 was cleared from Conestoga Station to Fairway Station (end to end), so I swung by King and Northfield to catch the run and followed along for a bit. It made every stop, with doors opening and a staff member getting out and back in again to simulate a typical run. They also swapped drivers at every stop which unfortunately added to the dwell times a bit. I can't wait to see how long this takes when they do this without the driver change!
steveintoronto
Superstar
Your skies were clear there today! It was hazy here, I'm in envy.
I noted this time the vertical and horizontal white bars in a flashing phase. Is that just an impending change alert, or something more?
And I had an incredible deja-vu moment half way through, took me about ten seconds to realize what the memory was: It was the railroad crossing clangs, took me back to San Diego and their Trolley, which still remains one of the more tested and proven models in North Am, even if Edmonton were first.
Good vid!
hw621
Senior Member
How do KW drivers react to the at grade streetcar style LRT?