Waterfront: General Topics

[Tee]

There are many reasons why projects don't get started in Toronto, or any other city/town for that matter. But, things are happening now, which give us reason for optimism. Sherbourne Common and Sugar Beach for examples. The Pan Am games site, and construction planned in that area with it's mixed condo/townhomes and retail, not to mention green areas. Also, look at the additions of Corus Entertainment and George Brown College......serious projects take time and studies. Building important parts of a city must be thought out.

 

[StCatharinesCitizen]

Have they done little though? I'd love to see things done really fast, but from the start this was seen as a 25-30 year project. The West Donlands, Central Waterfront and East Bayfront are well underway. I'd say at this point they're close to being on schedule.

Ford's vision is insane.

Fords vision is insane in a Canadian or more a North American view.

Countries around the world are far ahead of us in terms of their pase of development. China, United Arab Emirates and even Great Britain are more open to mega projects such as this and look how succesful they have become. Dubai has risen from a small city to a world class city in just ten years. Waterfront Toronto on the other hand is taking 25-30 years just to develop a waterfront which could be much more grand than it is now. Parklands are fantastic, but the amount of residential development on the waterfront is not right. The waterfront is meant to be a publicly accessable place but when the condos are built, there will be patches of inaccessable waterfront from east to west.

Dougs way or the highway syn

 

[Marcanadian]

Doug Ford: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?

Rob Ford: Monorail!

Doug Ford: What's it called?

Doug Holyday: Monorail!

Doug Ford: That's right! Monorail!

[city council chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]

Janet Davis: I hear those things are awfully loud...

Doug Ford: It glides as softly as a cloud.

Adam Vaughan: Is there a chance the track could bend?

Doug Ford: Not on your life, my lefty friend.

Denzil Minnan-Wong: What about us brain-dead slobs?

Doug Ford: You'll be given cushy jobs.

Gord Perks : Were you sent here by the devil?

Doug Ford: No, good sir, I'm on the level.

Giorgio Mammoliti: The ring came off my pudding can.

Doug Ford: Take my pen knife, my good man.

I swear it's Toronto's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!

All: Monorail!

Doug Ford: What's it called?

All: Monorail!

Doug Ford: Once again...

All: Monorail!

Kristyn Wong-Tam: But Yonge Street's still all cracked and broken...

Frances Nunziata: Sorry, Wong, the mob has spoken!

All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!

[big finish]

Monorail!

 

[Tee]

Lolll

 

[Thanos]

We just need the world's largest magnifying glass and an escalator to nowhere to complete the ensemble.

The mega mall idea is ridiculous. I can take the ferris wheel, the boat-in hotel and the monorail, but the mega mall? That has no place on our waterfront.

The mall is beyond ridiculous. The portlands do not necessarily need any retail.
I'm also undecided on the monorail. If Ontario Place is to be successful it needs access to public transit and the monorail can help in that regard.

 

[AKS]

We just need the world's largest magnifying glass and an escalator to nowhere to complete the ensemble.

The mega mall idea is ridiculous. I can take the ferris wheel, the boat-in hotel and the monorail, but the mega mall? That has no place on our waterfront.

Well, it depends how you set up a mega mall. If it's a tower mega mall it wouldn't take up so much land space and you could have a mix of tall and short office building, mall , restaurants, grocery stores, and residential. For example, Tokyo Hands in Tokyo has 10+ floors of retail, each floor selling different types of items. Toys, housewares, office supplies, seasonal items, etc. Or in HK, they have a lot of tiny stores inside a stacked mall. In NYC (between Times Square and Mid Manhattan) they also have several floors for a mall.

As for a Ferris Wheel, I thought we have one in Ontario Place? Maybe we should work with that instead? Do we need one on either side?

I don't know about the monorail idea. Reminds me of Odaiba and it's kind of cool but that's just more barriers dividing the city. We already have the Gardiner and trains dividing downtown. Do we want more dividers we'll regret later?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I think this is a fantastic proposal for the waterfront. I was down there a couple weeks ago and just realized how little Waterfront Toronto has done with the $492 million that they have already spent in federal dollars. Toronto is on the cusp of being a top world class city among milan, sydney, rome maybe even london and new york. Right now we sit just below them and I believe that this can push us over the top. He also mentions that parklands will be involved in the proposal which means that it wont just be flashy hotels and giga malls. The idea of private investment is also a great idea seeing as Waterfront Toronto is heading in the wrong direction in terms of funding and they'll soon be sinking in debt. Private investment will definately be attracted to the area because they have an entire waterfront located in a large city to develop.

If this happens, it will be the greatest thing this city has seen since the construction of the CN Tower!

SCC -- which part of the waterfront did you go to? I'm assuming not the West Don Lands, or you would have been more impressed.

Ford needs to square the circle of the floodplain before he can build anything in the Port Lands. What's his alternative to Waterfront Toronto's massive park/floodplain? Unless and until he fills in a couple of wee details, this is just more 'take from the left, give to my developer friends' scheming, which will come to the same end as the Sheppard subway: i.e., nowhere.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Okay, the Ford Bros are crossing the line from villainy to cartoonish super-villainy.

Why are we allowing these idiots to destroy years of work on one of the most major, defining projects in the city's history with something they probably thought up while on the can? Why don't people realize that these two are basically dictators who are shitting on our democracy? Who do they think they are? Joseph Stalin? One of those deranged Roman Emperors you read about in history books?

 

[Automation Gallery]

Hahaha, If it was the other way around and, Mr. Miller saying the same thing..you anti-Ford bashers would all be creaming your jeans. Come-on, who you guys kidding.

 

[jje1000]

Fords vision is insane in a Canadian or more a North American view.

Countries around the world are far ahead of us in terms of their pase of development. China, United Arab Emirates and even Great Britain are more open to mega projects such as this and look how succesful they have become. Dubai has risen from a small city to a world class city in just ten years. Waterfront Toronto on the other hand is taking 25-30 years just to develop a waterfront which could be much more grand than it is now.

Problem: Megaprojects develop in a way that looks good on the surface, but have underlying issues that might not become apparent until later on. As for the idea that Dubai is a world class city, it is- if you like to shop!

In cases like these, it's much better to allow the waterfront to develop slowly and to allow issues like traffic to be ironed out as they appear.

Parklands are fantastic, but the amount of residential development on the waterfront is not right. The waterfront is meant to be a publicly accessable place but when the condos are built, there will be patches of inaccessable waterfront from east to west.

There are already patches of inaccessable waterfront on the central waterfront, and guess who developed them? The private sector. Sorry, but without public intervention, developers would prefer to put up condos instead of parkland.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Hahaha, If it was the other way around and, Mr. Miller saying the same thing..you anti-Ford bashers would all be creaming your jeans. Come-on, who you guys kidding.

Except Miller would never say or do something like the Ford Brothers. David Miller never made a family member his right hand man and mouthpiece; David Miller never made unilateral decisions of this magnitude without consulting advisors or council; David Miller never interfered with a plan that was already halfway complete, and David Miller never dreamed up of an alternative scheme all by himself on a subject matter he never had any expertise about.

I was not a big fan of Miller, but he wasn't a quasi-Stalinist autocrat.

 

[jje1000]

I was not a big fan of Miller, but he wasn't a quasi-Stalinist autocrat.

"It's not backroom planning, it's called backroom vision."

-- Doug Ford on his Port Lands Pitch

 

[syn]

Fords vision is insane in a Canadian or more a North American view.

Countries around the world are far ahead of us in terms of their pase of development. China, United Arab Emirates and even Great Britain are more open to mega projects such as this and look how succesful they have become. Dubai has risen from a small city to a world class city in just ten years. Waterfront Toronto on the other hand is taking 25-30 years just to develop a waterfront which could be much more grand than it is now. Parklands are fantastic, but the amount of residential development on the waterfront is not right. The waterfront is meant to be a publicly accessable place but when the condos are built, there will be patches of inaccessable waterfront from east to west.

Dougs way or the highway syn

England's waterfront didn't pop up over night. Are those mega projects in China and Dubai human scaled? What kind of labour laws are in place?

I'd love to see this done quickly, but I'd rather see it done properly. Dumb and Dumber want to toss years of work and consultation out the window to build a ferris wheel, malls and a monorail. I'm not sure if you've looked over the plans, but they're far, far better than what the Ford's are proposing.

 

[Tulse]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we get Waterfront Toronto precisely because the private section was screwing up the waterfront? Wasn't it the private sector that is responsible for the wall of condos and lack of a connected public lakefront access?

Corus, and George Brown, and Sugar Beach, and Sherbourne Common, and River City, and Monde, and York Quay redevelopment, etc. etc. etc. -- what the hell does Ford want, anyway?

Tell you what, Rob: you first prove that the private sector will pay for your subway, and then we can talk about the waterfront. In the meantime, leave things alone.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we get Waterfront Toronto precisely because the private section was screwing up the waterfront? Wasn't it the private sector that is responsible for the wall of condos and lack of a connected public lakefront access?

Corus, and George Brown, and Sugar Beach, and Sherbourne Common, and River City, and Monde, and York Quay redevelopment, etc. etc. etc. -- what the hell does Ford want, anyway?

Tell you what, Rob: you first prove that the private sector will pay for your subway, and then we can talk about the waterfront. In the meantime, leave things alone.

But that's the thing, Tulse. Ford is tryinig to leverage something, anything, to bring in private developers with big dollars. Sheppard didn't work, so he looked at other tempting targets. I don't understand why he hasn't tried to monetize High Park yet.