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VIA Rail

I’ve said this before but a big difference between the Windsor-Quebec corridor and those “ similar sized” European countries is the Windsor-Quebec corridor isn’t an autonomous country, but part of a larger country with double the population. As a result, unlike those countries, half of the population doesn’t live close enough to the corridor to benefit from any upgrades made, so it isn’t a priority.
Part of that is that the wealth is not spread around such that the cost of investment is seen as worth it as it will eventually reach 'us'. An example of that would be to ask why a Corridor like service is not being talked about for between Calgary and Edmonton. The answer is that that is not a focus. The focus right ow is trying to keep what we have going. If Canadians knew that once the QC-W Corridor was fully equipped with a new fleet that other areas would be identified for places that they could use the option to buy more and have similar service, Via might matter.
 
I’ve said this before but a big difference between the Windsor-Quebec corridor and those “ similar sized” European countries is the Windsor-Quebec corridor isn’t an autonomous country, but part of a larger country with double the population. As a result, unlike those countries, half of the population doesn’t live close enough to the corridor to benefit from any upgrades made, so it isn’t a priority.
Which is why the corridor should be a provincial corridor. By both Quebec and Ontario - or as they used to be called - Canada.
 
Not sure how you get the hatred of passengers. I hate empty trains.Empty trains are a problem that should be prevented. I want all trains to be full all the time. Maybe not standby/being bumped, like planes, but full enough that the fare paid covers the cost of that train.
I‘m just connecting the dots:
  • When GO struggles to attract passengers from London at an ungodly early hour, you demand that they put the arrival even earlier.
  • When VIA gears the Canadian towards tourists, you demand that they destroy any utility for tourists (i.e., the only customer group willing to tolerate erratic timekeeping and highly uncompetitive travel times, while even paying generously for that service quality) by forcing countless transfers and layovers, in order to focus instead on a customer group (intercity travellers) to which it is unable to offer anything which could possibly compete against other modes (which are cheaper, faster, more frequent and reliable than anything VIA could possibly offer).
  • When VIA offers a service which is geared towards serving remote communities between Sudbury and White River, you demand that VIA abandons these passengers by instead routing the train via SSM (where, again, it chases intercity passengers it will never attract because it will never be able to offer anything competitive).
What is the communality between your demands? Your contempt for passengers and taxpayers, by compulsively demanding changes which would spend as much operating subsidies as possible while minimizing rail ridership as much as possible. If you really cared about increasing rail ridership and making rail relevant again as a passenger mode, you wouldn’t constantly drown any serious attempt at discussing these issues with your brainfarts.

I hate to say this, but the only way you could possibly advance the causes you pretend to champion is by changing the password to this forum to something you won‘t remember and then find yourself a different hobby. Aren’t there any interesting forums for veterans or power generation enthusiasts out there?
 
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I’ve said this before but a big difference between the Windsor-Quebec corridor and those “ similar sized” European countries is the Windsor-Quebec corridor isn’t an autonomous country, but part of a larger country with double the population. As a result, unlike those countries, half of the population doesn’t live close enough to the corridor to benefit from any upgrades made, so it isn’t a priority.
That‘s not the problem. The vast geographic size is unfortunately the problem here: whereas in all European countries, it is viable to travel by rail across the country and the construction of just a few HSR lines will benefit cities far beyond these HSR lines, people in Western places like Calgary and Edmonton will always be anything-but-forced to fly to cities like Toronto or Montreal and are therefore not very likely to ever benefit from any HSR link built in the Q-W Corridor.

Paris-Lyon as France‘s first HSL didn‘t just shave 1-2 hours of travel time for passengers travelling to Paris from Lyon, but also from all the cities beyond, ranging from Nice over Marseilles, Avignon, Montpellier to Toulouse and into Spain. Even halving the current travel time between Toronto and Montreal will make zero difference for the travel options Calgarians and Edmontonians will consider…
 
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I‘m just connecting the dots:
  • When GO struggles to attract passengers from London at an ungodly early hour, you demand that they put the arrival even earlier.

My issue is if you are going to put in service, it should work for the people intended. Whether or not it should even exist would be a whole other discussion.

  • When VIA gears the Canadian towards tourists, you demand that they destroy any utility for tourists (i.e., the only customer group willing to tolerate erratic timekeeping and highly uncompetitive travel times, while even paying generously for that service quality) by forcing countless transfers and layovers, in order to focus instead on a customer group (intercity travellers) to which it is unable to offer anything which could possibly compete against other modes (which are cheaper, faster, more frequent and reliable than anything VIA could possibly offer).

Imagine if Via geared its Corridor service towards tourists and not travelers. Those are different clientele, and also changes the attitude towards what ways it could be made better. We don't have transit buses being used for tourists. Why should Via be the one to do it?

  • When VIA offers a service which is geared towards serving remote communities between Sudbury and White River, you demand that VIA abandons these passengers by instead routing the train via SSM (where, again, it chases intercity passengers it will never attract because it will never be able to offer anything competitive).

Have I suggested removal of it? I have suggested other routes, but I don't remember suggesting its cancellation. If I did,that was stupid on my part.

What is the communality between your demands? Your contempt for passengers and taxpayers, by compulsively proposing changes which would spend as much operating subsidies as possible while minimizing rail ridership as much as possible. If you really cared about increasing rail ridership and making rail relevant again as a passenger mode, you wouldn’t constantly drown any serious attempt at discussing these issues with you BS.

I hate to say this, but the only way you could possibly advance the causes you pretend to champion is by changing the password to this forum to something you won‘t remember and then find yourself a different hobby. Aren’t there any interesting forums for veterans or power generation enthusiasts out there?
I have tried to focus on all the issues that are why Via has become irrelevant One by one you attack each one. Are you going to say that Via is the best passenger rail transportation agency we could ever have in Canada?
 
That‘s not the problem. The vast geographic size is unfortinately the problem here: whereas in all European countries, it is viable to travel by rail across the country and the construction of just a few HSR lines will benefit cities far beyond these HSR lines, people in Western places like Calgary and Edmonton will always be anything-but-forced to fly to cities like Toronto or Montreal and are therefore not very likely to ever benefit from any HSR link built in the Q-W Corridor.

Paris-Lyon as France‘s first HSL didn‘t just shave 1-2 hours of travel time for passengers travelling to Paris from Lyon, but also from all the cities beyond, ranging from Nice over Marseilles, Avignon, Montpellier to Toulouse and into Spain. Even halving the current travel time between Toronto and Montreal will make zero difference for the travel options Calgarians and Edmontonians will consider…

If HSR was committed to the Corridor with the stipulation that the Siemens fleet be used elsewhere to add service to places like Calgary - Edmonton, it may not be enough, but it would be something.
 
Unfortunately that leaves bad ideas unchallenged.
Yes, I agree that one should not ignore people simply because one does not like their ideas and it is good to hear other points of view - even if they are wrong! However, there are a few UTers who post excessively and who seem to make no effort to learn from responses or how to make a rational case for their schemes. I think I have 3 or 4 UTers on my ignore list and it IS a useful function. Some people keep posting to get reactions and in these cases it is best to pay no attention.
 
That‘s not the problem. The vast geographic size is unfortunately the problem here: whereas in all European countries, it is viable to travel by rail across the country and the construction of just a few HSR lines will benefit cities far beyond these HSR lines, people in Western places like Calgary and Edmonton will always be anything-but-forced to fly to cities like Toronto or Montreal and are therefore not very likely to ever benefit from any HSR link built in the Q-W Corridor.

Paris-Lyon as France‘s first HSL didn‘t just shave 1-2 hours of travel time for passengers travelling to Paris from Lyon, but also from all the cities beyond, ranging from Nice over Marseilles, Avignon, Montpellier to Toulouse and into Spain. Even halving the current travel time between Toronto and Montreal will make zero difference for the travel options Calgarians and Edmontonians will consider…

Isn’t that what I said, just worded differently? Since half the population lives far away from the Quebec-Windsor corridor, they wouldn’t benefit from investment within the corridor.
 
Isn’t that what I said, just worded differently? Since half the population lives far away from the Quebec-Windsor corridor, they wouldn’t benefit from investment within the corridor.

On a strict “what’s in it for me” basis that might be arguable…. But…. Underinvestment in passenger rail in Canada’s most populous area almost certainly implies overinvestment in highways and airports, and some of that extra investment capital will come from or be spent at a disadvantage to those far flung regions and taxpayers. So one can make the case that HxR leaves money on the table for other provinces to fight for.

- Paul
 
I’ve said this before but a big difference between the Windsor-Quebec corridor and those “ similar sized” European countries is the Windsor-Quebec corridor isn’t an autonomous country, but part of a larger country with double the population. As a result, unlike those countries, half of the population doesn’t live close enough to the corridor to benefit from any upgrades made, so it isn’t a priority.
I have argued this on another thread but this is why the federal government is completely unfit to manage passenger rail expansion. I'm personally of the opinion that Metrolinx should either develop an intercity transport brand, or expand GO to take over all intra-Ontario corridor routes from VIA.

Nothing will ever get done if we have a federal government whose priorities swing violently from election cycle to election cycle developing our infrastructure. It's highly unlikely HFR will survive the coming CPC supermajority, particularly when viewing PP's past comments on passenger rail, and when considering that his government will beholden to the interests of western and rural voters who cannot comprehend that a rising tide lifts all boats.

Compare this to a conservative government in our own province of Ontario that is overseeing a massive expansion of passenger rail both in the GTHA and even to the north where no sane case exists beyond serving the area with busses. Federally, passenger rail will never be a priority. Provincially in Ontario, it will always be something necessary to chase votes. It's simple political calculus.

Put VIA's viable core in the hands of those that can manage it competently, and let the rest fall where it may. I can't imagine many would shed a tear if the Canadian or Ocean went away, and any truly necessary remote services can be taken over locally like what happened with services operated by First Nations.
 
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considering that his government will beholden to the interests of western and rural voters who cannot comprehend that a rising tide lifts all boats.
Regardless of where their fan club is, no federal party will get the keys to the kingdom without winning Ontario and Quebec which have 2/3 of all ridings.

Nothing will ever get done if we have a federal government whose priorities swing violently from election cycle to election cycle developing our infrastructure.
And that doesn't happen at the provincial or municipal level?
 
I have argued this on another thread but this is why the federal government is completely unfit to manage passenger rail expansion. I'm personally of the opinion that Metrolinx should either develop an intercity transport brand, or expand GO to take over all intra-Ontario corridor routes from VIA.
Again, how do you want any provincial railroad(s) to effectively manage the overlapping intra-Ontarian, intra-Quebec and inter-provincial routes? You need all Corridor routes under one roof and HFR would achieve that.

Nothing will ever get done if we have a federal government whose priorities swing violently from election cycle to election cycle developing our infrastructure. It's highly unlikely HFR will survive the coming CPC supermajority, particularly when viewing PP's past comments on passenger rail, and when considering that his government will beholden to the interests of western and rural voters who cannot comprehend that a rising tide lifts all boats.
The CPC is pro-infrastructure, pro-investment and anti-spending. As long as the private sector is willing to cough up the necessary capital funding for HFR, the CPC certainly has no incentive to nix it. And there certainly is no way for any party to win anything close to a super-majority while catering only to “western and rural voters”.

Compare this to a conservative government in our own province of Ontario that is overseeing a massive expansion of passenger rail both in the GTHA and even to the north where no sane case exists beyond serving the area with busses. Federally, passenger rail will never be a priority. Provincially, it will always be something necessary to chase votes. It's simple political calculus.
Nobody is stopping the provinces (ON or QC) from providing funding for HxR and securing concessions like additional stations or minimum frequencies for Local services in return.

Put VIA's viable core in the hands of those that can manage it competently,
That’s exactly what is happening with HFR, as nobody in this country has the necessary experience and competencies to run the Corridor the way you envision.

and let the rest fall where it may. I can't imagine many would shed a tear if the Canadian or Ocean went away,
Sure, if your goal is to undermine any rationale for the federal government providing any guidance or funding for passenger rail infrastructure,then you definitely have the right policies. Just have a look at how surprisingly painful it is to cross international borders (even within the Schengen Area!) in Europe.

and any truly necessary remote services can be taken over locally like what happened with services operated by First Nations.
Sure, if your goal is to see operating subsidies explode, then having each remote route run by a different railroad with their own overheads, fleets and full-service maintenance center surely achieves that. I just have no idea what the problem is which you are trying to fix.

Anyways, you may want to ignore non-Corridor VIA (as it’s not worth agonizing about it, if you remember your own wise words) for now and instead watch how things unfold with HFR…
 
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