VIA Rail

[DSCToronto]

Not that many years ago, Via didn't even assign seats in economy, at least between Toronto and Ottawa, which is the route I used to take somewhat regularly. Which is why people got used to forming huge lineups in the departure hall an hour or more before the train was scheduled to leave, so that you could get a seat with your party.

Yes, same on Montreal-Toronto and I agree it set people up to the need to queue. Charging for reserved seats seems pretty silly to me and really ONLY a 'money pit' - but one that will piss off customers!

 

[Urban Sky]

Nobody forces anyone to purchase a ticket without complimentary seat selection, just like nobody forces anyone to whine here endlessly how not having to pay for selecting their preferred seat regardless of how much more or less the other folks in the same car have paid is their birth right.

The calculation with the new fare model is simple:

• Want full flexibility and gain as many Preference points as possible? Choose „Economy Plus“!
• Are you okay with reduced flexibility as well as a slightly lower Preference point accumulation? Save some $15 and choose „Economy“ instead!
• Do you just want a ride and don‘t really care about which seat you are getting or receiving extra Preference points or any refund if your plans change? Save another $10 or so and choose „Escape“!

If you don‘t like the fare conditions for „Escape“, choose a different fare class or a different operator and mode (good luck, though, if you take offense by merely being offered a ticket without complimentary seat selection!). But maybe one day you‘ll realize that what is called a bit unfortunately „price discrimination“ leads to better outcomes for everyone, by allowing passengers to choose for which features they are prepared to pay more and for which ones they aren‘t…

Edit: doesn’t Megabus come with a stupid „reservation fee“, which cannot be avoided but inexplicably gets added on top of any advertised fare?

 

[micheal_can]

Are there other intercity passenger railways in the world that also do this? Is this a normal thing or is this an outlier?

 

[Garuda]

Are there other intercity passenger railways in the world that also do this? Is this a normal thing or is this an outlier?

the EU has seen a rise of budget high speed trains that operate like budget airlines where you’re charged for every little thing.

Big difference is that it’s a sub brand of a larger railway agency. So there’s SNCF and their low cost brand Ouigo.

https://www.ouigo.com/

 

[roger1818]

Are there other intercity passenger railways in the world that also do this? Is this a normal thing or is this an outlier?

It has been a while, but back when I last used intercity trains in Europe (not HSR), you had to pay extra for a reserved seat (not sure if you could select which seat it was), otherwise you could sit in any seat that was not marked as reserved when boarding. That was over 20 years ago though.

This whole issue seems to be a bunch of Karens (or whatever the gender neutral version of a Karen is) complaining about a non issue to me.

 

[Urban Sky]

the EU has seen a rise of budget high speed trains that operate like budget airlines where you’re charged for every little thing.

Big difference is that it’s a sub brand of a larger railway agency. So there’s SNCF and their low cost brand Ouigo.

https://www.ouigo.com/

I‘m not sure how many actual passengers share your hinted personal preference of forcing price-conscious and convenience-focused passengers to book different sets of trains over different website rather than simply offering distinct choices of fares when they select a departure, but as @roger1818 said, this seems to be a non-issue except for people who still struggle to grasp that this only affect those passengers who insist on paying the lowest-available (i.e., „Escape“) fares and therefore have to accept the lack of certain amenities which come with other slightly more expensive fare options…

 

[Admiral Beez]

Not that many years ago, Via didn't even assign seats in economy, at least between Toronto and Ottawa, which is the route I used to take somewhat regularly. Which is why people got used to forming huge lineups in the departure hall an hour or more before the train was scheduled to leave, so that you could get a seat with your party.

I'm a big fan of reserved seating. Even Cineplex does this now at their VIP theatres, which is great. No line ups, no hassle. As a university student in the 1990s taking VIA from Ottawa or Toronto it felt like we're waiting to escape on the roof of some embassy, with everyone lining up.

 

[turbanplanner]

At this rate VIA might as well purchase some narrow body planes, strip that wings then weld them to flat bed cars if they want to act like airlines so much.

In fact I already have a mock up:

(Spirit AeroSystems)

If you ever go on the Boeing factory tour you can see them irl

 

[Urban Sky]

I'm a big fan of reserved seating. Even Cineplex does this now at their VIP theatres, which is great. No line ups, no hassle. As a university student in the 1990s taking VIA from Ottawa or Toronto it felt like we're waiting to escape on the roof of some embassy, with everyone lining up.

Exactly, and even passengers with the cheapest tickets („Escape“) fare will still have a reserved seat and therefore still no reason to show up early and queue for an eternity…

 

[roger1818]

Exactly, and even passengers with the cheapest tickets („Escape“) fare will still have a reserved seat and therefore still no reason to show up early and queue for an eternity…

I suspect those complaining are conflating reserved seating with seat selection.

 

[Urban Sky]

I suspect those complaining are conflating reserved seating with seat selection.

And none of those whining now seem to acknowledge that this change only affects those passengers which deliberately chose to book in the cheapest („Escape“) fare, rather than spend an extra $10 or so on a fare which would not just offer them conplimentary seat selection, but also flexibility in the event that they have to cancel or rebook. You get what you pay for. Simple as that…

 

[micheal_can]

It has been a while, but back when I last used intercity trains in Europe (not HSR), you had to pay extra for a reserved seat (not sure if you could select which seat it was), otherwise you could sit in any seat that was not marked as reserved when boarding. That was over 20 years ago though.

This whole issue seems to be a bunch of Karens (or whatever the gender neutral version of a Karen is) complaining about a non issue to me.

I am agreement with you, that's why I wanted to find out if this was a normal thing or a nothingburger.

 

[Admiral Beez]

And none of those whining now seem to acknowledge that this change only affects those passengers which deliberately chose to book in the cheapest („Escape“) fare, rather than spend an extra $10 or so on a fare which would not just offer them conplimentary seat selection, but also flexibility in the event that they have to cancel or rebook. You get what you pay for. Simple as that…

What savings or expenses is VIA incurring if one does or does not reserve a seat? There should be no extra charge unless VIA is incurring an extra cost.

While we're at in, if I have to self check and bag my groceries, the law should demand that I am refunded the ten minutes of minimum wage I would have been paid to do their job.

 

[Urban Sky]

What savings or expenses is VIA incurring if one does or does not reserve a seat? There should be no extra charge unless VIA is incurring an extra cost.

By that flawed logic, VIA would not be allowed to charge more than the marginal fuel costs of transporting the body weight of each individual passenger. Marginal costs incurred per additional passenger are mostly nonexistent in the transportation industry and thus almost irrelevant for pricing, which must generate enough revenues to not just recover variable costs, but also fixed costs.

The entire point of „price discrimination“ is to restrict certain perks to higher fare options, so that customers can decide by their own whether they are prepared to pay extra for them or not, which leads to much better outcomes for the customers than offering a single fare at a single price, as price-conscious customers end up paying lower prices wheress value-conscious customers get to enjoy the perks they desire (and value)…

And just to add another point: given that customers generally pay more the later they book, why should the customers who pay the least have the best seats (because they book and therefore can chose their seats before everyone else)?

This is the same principle as with Netflix: if you can’t stand watching ads, just don‘t buy the basic plan!

 

[reaperexpress]

What savings or expenses is VIA incurring if one does or does not reserve a seat? There should be no extra charge unless VIA is incurring an extra cost.

While we're at in, if I have to self check and bag my groceries, the law should demand that I am refunded the ten minutes of minimum wage I would have been paid to do their job.

The cost that VIA incurs is the opportunity cost of people not getting the best ratio of service to price, which could result in marginally lower revenue. Different seats have different value to different passengers, so efficiently allocating resources to match rider preferences will maximize the total benefit experienced by people on a given train.

Most people prefer sitting forward, but some people care more than others. Given that only half of the seats in Corridor trains face forward, it makes sense to try and match those seats with the passengers who have the strongest preference for them. People who have a strong preference for facing forward can pay for seat selection (either via a higher-end ticket type or paying the seat selection fee), while people who just want the cheapest fare can take the less high-demand seats.

From my experience with the new booking system, most of the default seat assignments I have gotten were rear-facing seats, which would support my theory of using seat selection as a method to allocate forward-facing seats. I don't have a strong preference but I do generally change them to forward-facing seats. But since I often book Escape fares and don't care that much one way or the other, once they start charging for seat selection I will just stay in the default backward-facing seat. Which is an optimal decision for passengers overall, because chances are that whoever gets that forward-facing seat cares more than I do.

A similar situation exists with window vs aisle seats. This is definitely a consideration for Via given the new policies also include a surcharge for the standalone seats in Business Class compared to the paired seats if you pay the basic Business fare.