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VIA Rail

kEiThZ said:
This is going to be a nail in the coffin for the CIB. What's the point of them, if they can't deliver anything in a reasonable amount of time?
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The procurement timeline going forward looks pretty typical to me.

Remember that the options here weren't speedy construction with a $10 billion budget authorization up front where money can buy stakeholder consensus versus the current process.

It was status quo versus the current process.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Yup, I recall Ottawa-Montreal being first on the list because it's the lowest hanging fruit. Toronto-Smith Falls requires an EA for some new alignments and will take longer, while Ottawa-Montreal can get away with a much less rigorous environmental approvals process.
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Isn't the Alexandra sub rated for 100mph running? It doesn't get any faster than that.
Do they really need to bypass Ottawa?
 
Bordercollie said:
Isn't the Alexandra sub rated for 100mph running? It doesn't get any faster than that.
Do they really need to bypass Ottawa?
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I believe that my opinion about the incredibly low value-for-money of the Ottawa Bypass is well known by now, but given that maximum speed is capped at 200 km/h, it will be challenging to obtain achieve a travel time of 4:13 hours over a distance of 580 km (representing an average speed of 137.5 km/h or 68.8% of maximum speed).
 
I’m not very optimistic on us getting this project finished let alone with shovels in the ground. Unless it’s ironclad from the political BS that come around, it is effectively going to die once we have a change in government. I hate to say it but that’s what I see. Based on how slow the whole process has been and how they haven’t managed to attract any investors even domestic pension groups, it really speaks volumes. This aside from all the BS that CP and CN will probably throw in once things start moving a bit faster.

The constellation has to align for this to happen and that means politics, CN/CP, and Transport Canada all on the same track for more than 2 election cycles. I don’t see that happening at this rate.
 
yrt+viva=1system said:
I’m not very optimistic on us getting this project finished let alone with shovels in the ground. Unless it’s ironclad from the political BS that come around, it is effectively going to die once we have a change in government. I hate to say it but that’s what I see. Based on how slow the whole process has been and how they haven’t managed to attract any investors even domestic pension groups, it really speaks volumes. This aside from all the BS that CP and CN will probably throw in once things start moving a bit faster.

The constellation has to align for this to happen and that means politics, CN/CP, and Transport Canada all on the same track for more than 2 election cycles. I don’t see that happening at this rate.
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I wouldn't expect investor announcements until after regulatory approval.
 
yrt+viva=1system said:
I’m not very optimistic on us getting this project finished let alone with shovels in the ground. Unless it’s ironclad from the political BS that come around, it is effectively going to die once we have a change in government. I hate to say it but that’s what I see. Based on how slow the whole process has been and how they haven’t managed to attract any investors even domestic pension groups, it really speaks volumes. This aside from all the BS that CP and CN will probably throw in once things start moving a bit faster.

The constellation has to align for this to happen and that means politics, CN/CP, and Transport Canada all on the same track for more than 2 election cycles. I don’t see that happening at this rate.
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Regardless of what project actually gets built the status quo of today is not acceptable even with a new fleet.

People need a better way to travel, and less dependent on the automobile.

We have to be able to reduce our carbon footprint. Planes are not the answer.
 
nfitz said:
As they parallel each other for quite a distance, it would be easy to put a connection. Or perhaps even some dedicated tracks down the centre.

Though I'd be happy if they knocked down that recreation centre, and shifted the service to Windsor Station. That would let them use the CP tracks around the mountain, rather the the CN tracks - and use the station at Parc, connected to the Blue Line.

Would also let them have a transfer station at Montreal West to switch between the Quebec and Ottawa/Toronto trains.
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Maybe the best would be to use Côte-de-Liesse REM station as a sort of "North Station" for Montréal, where Via trains bound for Jonquière, Senneterre and Québec City via the North Shore could originate. I doubt most HFR trains will go all the way from Québec City to Toronto, so if there are a few they could stop at Côte-de-Liesse on their way to Québec City, while trains that end in Montréal from Toronto and Ottawa would just use Gare Centrale.

The 2 obvious issues here would be this:

1. They would have to build a connection between CP and CN. There used to be one, which is now a Home Depot. Such a connection could also be used by Saint-Jérôme bound Exo trains.
2. The trains would need to run through the CN yard, which is very slow... Negotiations with CN would have to take place.
 
Xav said:
Maybe the best would be to use Côte-de-Liesse REM station as a sort of "North Station" for Montréal, where Via trains bound for Jonquière, Senneterre and Québec City via the North Shore could originate. I doubt most HFR trains will go all the way from Québec City to Toronto, so if there are a few they could stop at Côte-de-Liesse on their way to Québec City, while trains that end in Montréal from Toronto and Ottawa would just use Gare Centrale.

The 2 obvious issues here would be this:

1. They would have to build a connection between CP and CN. There used to be one, which is now a Home Depot. Such a connection could also be used by Saint-Jérôme bound Exo trains.
2. The trains would need to run through the CN yard, which is very slow... Negotiations with CN would have to take place.
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How about we pool money and build a 2nd Mont Royal tunnel from Gare Centrale to Parc? If we go for broke and quad track it, we can have frequent electrified service on the St. Jerome Line, a proper through connection for VIA HFR in Gare Centrale, and a direct to downtown service on the Mascouche Line.
 
If VIA doesnt have enough equiptment for a 3rd Canadian Set, could they run it with Just economy and business class between toronto and Winnipeg?
 
ARG1 said:
How about we pool money and build a 2nd Mont Royal tunnel from Gare Centrale to Parc? If we go for broke and quad track it, we can have frequent electrified service on the St. Jerome Line, a proper through connection for VIA HFR in Gare Centrale, and a direct to downtown service on the Mascouche Line.
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That would be great, but I doubt any current government would want to fund this unfortunately :(
 
How about VIA run Quebec to Montreal trains to Dorval along the CP tracks as a separate service from the TOM line?

With a one-staircase transfer at Canora, passengers are only 3 minutes from downtown at frequencies not far from that of an elevator. With fare integration on a VIA ticket, it would be a trivially easy connection.

Continuing on to Dorval would allow for a cross-platform connection to Ottawa- and Toronto-bound trains and vice-versa. This reduces the T/O-Quebec trip times by some 40 minutes by cutting out the slow Dorval-Centrale segment on both the approach and reverse.

I know it's not the holy grail of dt-to-dt service. But push comes to shove, it's an odd decision to spend 20 minutes (40 for those bypassing Montreal) saving 3.
 
Aylmer said:
How about VIA run Quebec to Montreal trains to Dorval along the CP tracks as a separate service from the TOM line?

With a one-staircase transfer at Canora, passengers are only 3 minutes from downtown at frequencies not far from that of an elevator. With fare integration on a VIA ticket, it would be a trivially easy connection.

Continuing on to Dorval would allow for a cross-platform connection to Ottawa- and Toronto-bound trains and vice-versa. This reduces the T/O-Quebec trip times by some 40 minutes by cutting out the slow Dorval-Centrale segment on both the approach and reverse.

I know it's not the holy grail of dt-to-dt service. But push comes to shove, it's an odd decision to spend 20 minutes (40 for those bypassing Montreal) saving 3.
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In general that would make sense, but the transfer at Canora is not that simple. There is a busy intersection there that cannot be eliminated or moved under or over the tracks. Furthermore, the REM station is now located 180m from the CP tracks, so passengers would need to walk under or over Jean-Talon street and the REM tracks to reach the station.

That's why a CP to CN connection near Ahuntsic station (there is still an existing overpass above Acadie boulevard from that old connection) and a stop at Côte-de-Liesse station would make more sense. It's already built as an interchange station for train-REM connections, it could accomodate all north shore commuter rail lines and Via lines. It has more room to grow too.
 
The big issue with moving the VIA rail north of downtown is that it forces another transfer to public transit or a longer uber ride for many trips into Montreal. While I don't have access to data to back this up, I do understand that the majority of people choosing to take the train from Ottawa to Montreal instead of driving do so because it is more convenient than driving if your destination is in downtown Montreal. If HFR is going to attract more riders it will need to compete with driving to gain additional ridership from people who would have otherwise drove. This would require playing towards the strength of the train, easy access to a downtown that is accessible without a car. Addition an additional transfer to a crowded metro train or a need for a moderately long uber ride makes the entire process less appealing and makes it less likely that drivers choose to buy tickets instead of just driving to Montreal. This gets worse when you consider how many people could be going to destinations off the REM route and would therefore need to make two transfers in Montreal to get to their destination. Transit gains ridership when it is made more convenient. While adding frequencies and improving speed does improve convenience, relocating stations and splitting services risks negating these benefits.
 
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