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VIA Rail

roger1818 said:
I respectfully disagree. The Nightstar trains were designed to be unidirectional, as being overnight trains, they had plenty of time to turn them around during the day while being stored in a yard. From a passenger perspective, most of the cars are agnostic to the direction, but as @Urban Sky said, the couplers and wiring are directional. The big exception are the coaches, as the seats all face in the same direction, so unless you want to have everyone face backwards in one direction, that is a problem.



That is true, but they didn't use much HEP (Budd) equipment on the Ocean prior to COVID. This picture I took in 2018 shows only 2 HEP cars (one of which was a Park car).

View attachment 335195

Whereas this recent photo posted by @drum118 seems to show 4 HEP cars, and no park cars:
Click to expand...
Just to be sure: I no longer work for VIA and I have no idea whether (and if yes: how) they modified the Renaissance cars (I recall that at least 3 HEP coaches underwent a project in preparation for deployment on the Ocean, but I don't know if that was anything beyond refurbishing the interiors). All I was saying is that the Renaissance fleet holds ridiculously complex operational constraints and that changing the Ocean's Renaissance configuration to anything else than the customary BAG-ECO(s)-Accessible ECO-Service-Diner-Service-Accessible SLE-SLE(s)-Baggage Transition configuration can be very costly or lead to very weird compromises which only make sense when you ask the right people at MMC...

For the same reason, I would also assume that it would be very difficult and costly to revive a Corridor night train with Renaissance equipment...
 
Urban Sky said:
Just to be sure: I no longer work for VIA and I have no idea whether (and if yes: how) they modified the Renaissance cars (I recall that at least 3 HEP coaches underwent a project in preparation for deployment on the Ocean, but I don't know if that was anything beyond refurbishing the interiors). All I was saying is that the Renaissance fleet holds ridiculously complex operational constraints and that changing the Ocean's Renaissance configuration to anything else than the customary BAG-ECO(s)-Accessible ECO-Service-Diner-Service-Accessible SLE-SLE(s)-Baggage Transition configuration can be very costly or lead to very weird compromises which only make sense when you ask the right people at MMC...

For the same reason, I would also assume that it would be very difficult and costly to revive a Corridor night train with Renaissance equipment...
Click to expand...
So to turn the train, they would need to uncouple the trainset and then turn each car one by one?

Or without the parkcar they could pull the entire trainset backwards? But I thought the seats only face one way?
 
Bordercollie said:
So to turn the train, they would need to uncouple the trainset and then turn each car one by one?
Click to expand...
It's much more complicated than that: some cars have quick couplers on one side (which only couple with other quick couplers) and you can't turn the baggage or baggage transition car because they have standard American couplers on the other side...

Or without the parkcar they could pull the entire trainset backwards? But I thought the seats only face one way?
Click to expand...
There is a reason why non-corridor trains typically have their baggage car next to the locomotive(s) and the coaches directly afterwards. This is not possible with a Park car, unless it's at the opposite end of the train...
 
Urban Sky said:
It's much more complicated than that: some cars have quick couplers on one side (which only couple with other quick couplers) and you can't turn the baggage or baggage transition car because they have standard American couplers on the other side...


There is a reason why non-corridor trains typically have their baggage car next to the locomotive(s) and the coaches directly afterwards. This is not possible with a Park car, unless it's at the opposite end of the train...
Click to expand...
I assume it was too expensive to change all of the couplers to north american ones?

But even with the corridor fleet renewal we don't have enough equipment to replace the Ren sets.
But with the Canadian only running on a limited schedule, why didn't they use BUDD cars on the ocean instead?

Did they fix the AC on the Ren cars while they were stored during the pandemic? What about the leaking roofs?
 
Bordercollie said:
I assume it was too expensive to change all of the couplers to north american ones?

But even with the corridor fleet renewal we don't have enough equipment to replace the Ren sets.
But with the Canadian only running on a limited schedule, why didn't they use BUDD cars on the ocean instead?

Did they fix the AC on the Ren cars while they were stored during the pandemic? What about the leaking roofs?
Click to expand...
As I said earlier, I no longer work for VIA and I was never directly involved in (re)configuring the Ocean post-Halterm. That said, when if not now (where lots of Budd equipment is unassigned and may be used at short notice on any service) is the best time to test out how well the bidirectional and hybrid REN-HEP trainset works in revenue service?
 
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www.viarail.ca

Halifax to Montreal train | VIA Rail

The Halifax to Montreal train makes an overnight journey along the St. Lawrence before crossing the provinces of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. No other train offers such a variety of travel options.
www.viarail.ca www.viarail.ca
  • We ask that all passengers limit their movements within the train and remain in their cabin or at their assigned seats for the duration of the trip.
  • All meals will be provided in-cabin only and will have to be eaten in cabins. The menu and bar service have been modified.
  • Unfortunately, the Park car and Service cars (lounge/dome cars) will not be accessible to any passenger.
  • Activities and entertainment (including music) have been cancelled.
 
roger1818 said:
I respectfully disagree. The Nightstar trains were designed to be unidirectional, as being overnight trains, they had plenty of time to turn them around during the day while being stored in a yard. From a passenger perspective, most of the cars are agnostic to these direction, but as @Urban Sky said, the couplers and wiring are directional. The big exception are the coaches, as the seats all face in the same direction, so unless you want to have everyone face backwards in one direction, that is a problem.
Click to expand...

The trains were designed to be run as fixed consists, and so the "couplers" are handed, yes. (As are the electrical connectors.) They also must have at least one service car, as that is where a lot of the heavy electrical conversion equipment is located for the entire trainset.

But they were absolutely designed to be bidirectional. Why do you think that both the bedrooms and coach seating were configured to be fixed, and facing in both directions?

And why do you think that the diesel locos that they had converted for the service (class 37/6s) were to be operated back-to-back, with a generator car between them?

Dan
 
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Bordercollie said:
I assume it was too expensive to change all of the couplers to north american ones?
Click to expand...

It frankly wasn't feasible, not within the timeframe and budget provided.

As I wrote above, the cars were designed to operate in fixed consists. Even within each consist, there were slight differences in some cars depending on how they were designed to be marshalled and used (most coaches didn't have couplers at all, some had an automatic coupler not unlike a Scharfenburg that allowed for faster coupling-and-uncoupling).

Couple that with the early crash energy management built into the cars, and it is very, very difficult to design a system to allow for the use of North American couplers on the cars. The conversion of the 12 sleeper shells into baggage cars was the best that could be done.

Bordercollie said:
But even with the corridor fleet renewal we don't have enough equipment to replace the Ren sets.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Remember that the new equipment will not have to be turned at the ends of its runs - that frees up a lot of time that is otherwise required for prepping each train.

There's also the assumption - right or wrong - that the new equipment will be more reliable by virtual of its new-ness.

And finally, the will be some older rolling stock maintained for corridor service, providing a net increase of seats for service.

Bordercollie said:
But with the Canadian only running on a limited schedule, why didn't they use BUDD cars on the ocean instead?
Click to expand...

And then what is done when the Canadian goes back to regular running?

It's not just that the equipment then has to be moved to another location for that service (Montreal to Toronto) - but also a whole lot of stuff at the back end of VIA's systems needs to change as well.

Bordercollie said:
Did they fix the AC on the Ren cars while they were stored during the pandemic? What about the leaking roofs?
Click to expand...

I'm hearing that there was a LOT of work done to the Rennaissance equipment that remains left for service on The Ocean. I suspect that they did fix most of those issues with the HVAC and what have you. The exterior condition certainly reflects that some work was done to the cars while they sat.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
The trains were designed to be run as fixed consists, and so the "couplers" are handed, yes. (As are the electrical connectors.) They also must have at least one service car, as that is where a lot of the heavy electrical conversion equipment is located for the entire trainset.

But they were absolutely designed to be bidirectional. Why do you think that both the bedrooms and coach seating were configured to be fixed, and facing in both directions?
Click to expand...

The coach seating is configured to be fixed, and facing in one direction.

smallspy said:
And why do you think that the diesel locos that they had converted for the service (class 37/6s) were to be operated back-to-back, with a generator car between them?
Click to expand...

The locos were built in the 1960s. The fact that even with two of them, they still didn't have enough power to provide HEP and needed a separate HEP generator van must tell you something. Them being back-to-back may have been that they were designed to operate that way.

Even if they were originally designed to operate in both directions (which I doubt), VIA now has the coaches configured to have all the seats facing in one direction and the way the under seat and overhead compartments are designed, it would be difficult if not impossible to change the seat directions. Even if it were possible, given the poor condition of the Renaissance equipment, it would be foolish to spend good money to modify the coaches for bi-directional operation.
 
roger1818 said:
The coach seating is configured to be fixed, and facing in one direction.



The locos were built in the 1960s. The fact that even with two of them, they still didn't have enough power to provide HEP and needed a separate HEP generator van must tell you something. Them being back-to-back may have been that they were designed to operate that way.

Even if they were originally designed to operate in both directions (which I doubt), VIA now has the coaches configured to have all the seats facing in one direction and the way the under seat and overhead compartments are designed, it would be difficult if not impossible to change the seat directions. Even if it were possible, given the poor condition of the Renaissance equipment, it would be foolish to spend good money to modify the coaches for bi-directional operation.
Click to expand...
Im surprised why hardly anyone else in the western world has not adopted swivel seating like the japanese trains. That way everyone can all face the direction of travel back and forth. Its not rocket science and if the shinkansen can implement them safely its should be no issue on much slower venture cars.
 
cplchanb said:
Im surprised why hardly anyone else in the western world has not adopted swivel seating like the japanese trains. That way everyone can all face the direction of travel back and forth. Its not rocket science and if the shinkansen can implement them safely its should be no issue on much slower venture cars.
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AFAIK, the LRC and HEP trains have (had) swivel seats, but VIA doesn't tend to turn them as it takes too much time.
 
roger1818 said:
AFAIK, the LRC and HEP trains have (had) swivel seats, but VIA doesn't tend to turn them as it takes too much time.
Click to expand...
Honestly though if that's their excuse that's just pure laziness. There should be no reason why a 5 car train (assuming Toronto to montreal) that runs at best once an hour cannot be prepped for service within that time frame. They can clean and turn around a 16 car shinkansen unless than 10 minutes. For sure if they tried they can rotate 5 cars in 1 hour
 
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