VIA Rail

[cplchanb]

I don't have any inside information, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if all of the corridor HEP (and Renaissance) cars sidelined (HEPs are almost certainly used elsewhere in the network). The LRC coaches are probably the cheapest coaches for VIA to operate, since, being made out of aluminum instead of steel, they are likely significantly lighter. LRCs represent 2/3 of VIA's corridor coaches (ignoring baggage and service cars), so with the reduced number of corridor trains, it should be easy for VIA to meet their current requirements with only LRCs.

Well they are supposed to be LIGHT....RAPID AND COMFORTABLE....

 

[EnviroTO]

OMG, that Auditor General's report makes you both laugh and cry. The budget went up 1400% over the original estimate, and in the end VIA trains are slower and more unreliable, and CN wins... they can direct VIA onto the new tracks they built to pass them LOL. Yes, lets spend more on projects like this.

 

[EnviroTO]

There certainly should be improvement to SW Ontario services. The lack of any service improvements to London, Kitchener, Brantford, or restoring Hamilton service is unfortunate, while pushing this HFR scheme for other cities. (gosh, they've been playing with running some Montreal/Ottawa services through to the new suburban station at Aldershot for years now. Why not try extending one of those to the Hamilton Hunter Street terminal and see what that would do).

Considering VIA owns the corridor Windsor to Chatham, Metrolinx owns Kitchener to near Georgetown and Bramalea to Union, and the conflicts with freight are mainly limited to Komoka through to the Western Fairgrounds, Stratford to Kitchener, and Georgetown to Bramalea, I'm not sure that the HFR scheme is as relevant in Southwestern Ontario. Really the worst section for speed was Kitchener to Georgetown and Metrolinx is improving that section.

For Hamilton/Niagara Metrolinx owns Union to near Aldershot, and the only contention is Aldershot onwards, and Metrolinx is putting in investments there... so again does it make sense for VIA to put HFR money there when the goal is to have corridors where passengers come first?

If there was to be HFR money spent in Southwestern Ontario the best investment is to help Metrolinx pay for a freight by-pass Bramalea through the 407 corridor to south of Milton, and to have VIA buy the corridor Kitchener to London, and maybe a basket-weave at Komoka depending on the challenges scheduling trains from there onto the north track at the London station. For Hamilton/Niagara the best investment is to buy the south half of the corridor from Aldershot to Bayview junction, the creation of a basket-weave to keep GO to the south side of the corridor as it turns back east towards Hamilton, and to buy the south half of the corridor Bayview Junction to Stoney Creek, and the whole corridor to Niagara Falls. That basically creates corridors where passengers can run unimpeded by freight for most of the trip achieving the goals of HFR.

 

[ManyQuestions]

Considering VIA owns the corridor Windsor to Chatham, Metrolinx owns Kitchener to near Georgetown and Bramalea to Union, and the conflicts with freight are mainly limited to Komoka through to the Western Fairgrounds, Stratford to Kitchener, and Georgetown to Bramalea, I'm not sure that the HFR scheme is as relevant in Southwestern Ontario. Really the worst section for speed was Kitchener to Georgetown and Metrolinx is improving that section.

For Hamilton/Niagara Metrolinx owns Union to near Aldershot, and the only contention is Aldershot onwards, and Metrolinx is putting in investments there... so again does it make sense for VIA to put HFR money there when the goal is to have corridors where passengers come first?

If there was to be HFR money spent in Southwestern Ontario the best investment is to help Metrolinx pay for a freight by-pass Bramalea through the 407 corridor to south of Milton, and to have VIA buy the corridor Kitchener to London, and maybe a basket-weave at Komoka depending on the challenges scheduling trains from there onto the north track at the London station. For Hamilton/Niagara the best investment is to buy the south half of the corridor from Aldershot to Bayview junction, the creation of a basket-weave to keep GO to the south side of the corridor as it turns back east towards Hamilton, and to buy the south half of the corridor Bayview Junction to Stoney Creek, and the whole corridor to Niagara Falls. That basically creates corridors where passengers can run unimpeded by freight for most of the trip achieving the goals of HFR.

Is this the hydro corridor freight bypass that was cancelled by Ford? I'm not up to date with southwest Ontario rail plans but recall that there was an initiative to reroute freight trains off the Kitchener line to enable all day go service. Thought I might just be confusing that with some parts of the Wynne promise of high speed rail over the existing corridor.

 

[EnviroTO]

Is this the hydro corridor freight bypass that was cancelled by Ford? I'm not up to date with southwest Ontario rail plans but recall that there was an initiative to reroute freight trains off the Kitchener line to enable all day go service. Thought I might just be confusing that with some parts of the Wynne promise of high speed rail over the existing corridor.

It is mainly driven by a desire for frequent service on the Kitchener lines (beyond Bramalea) and Milton lines. Ford government's assures us it isn't necessary "because they have found a way that doesn't require it", which is absolute nonsense unless they are really saying the way not to do it is to not be frequent. Seriously, they expect us to believe they have the ability to increase service on the line without the by-pass, but for some reason the frequent service planned and electrification will end at Bramalea instead of Brampton downtown or Mount Pleasant (Metrolinx station naming rule error detected). Who believes that? End service in Bramalea?? Makes no sense for what they are saying.

 

[ManyQuestions]

It sucks that we can do round trips from Toronto to Ottawa in one day, and with Greyhound not running, driving would be the only option.

I'm honestly amazed by how little the federal government has done to ensure the availability of essential intercity transportation throughout the pandemic. While VIA has received support to provide a skeletal service, nothing has been done to address the departure of greyhound and how it has left Ottawa without any intercity bus service other than Ontario Northland to North Bay. They old (and unpleasant) greyhound terminal is already in the process of being redeveloped and there seems to be no plan to construct a new station.

 

[ManyQuestions]

It is mainly driven by a desire for frequent service on the Kitchener lines (beyond Bramalea) and Milton lines. Ford government's assures us it isn't necessary "because they have found a way that doesn't require it" which is absolute nonsense unless they are really saying the way not to do it is to not be frequent. Seriously they expect us to believe they have the ability to increase service on the line without the by-pass, but for some reason a the frequent service planned and electrification will end at Bramalea instead of Brampton downtown or Mount Pleasant (Metrolinx station naming rule error detected). Who believes that? End service in Bramalea?? Makes no sense for what they are saying.

Could it be because of a planned separation of local and express trains from Bramalea to Union? Intuitively it would make sense for the majority of Kitchener-Union trains to have limited stops within the GTA in order to maintain a competitive trip time, ideally with transfers to local trains somewhere in Brampton to allow access to the otherwise skipped stops. Honestly, HFR to Kitchener seems to make more sense than all day frequent GO service. Of course, neither is possible without dedicated tracks.

 

[crs1026]

Could it be because of a planned separation of local and express trains from Bramalea to Union? Intuitively it would make sense for the majority of Kitchener-Union trains to have limited stops within the GTA in order to maintain a competitive trip time, ideally with transfers to local trains somewhere in Brampton to allow access to the otherwise skipped stops. Honestly, HFR to Kitchener seems to make more sense than all day frequent GO service. Of course, neither is possible without dedicated tracks.

Service to Kitchener should be semi-express, yes, regardless of whether it’s GO or VIA. That is indeed what the four-tracking will enable. The end service pattern may be a mixture of GO and VIA trains, although one hears interesting rumours otherwise.

The “HFR paradigm“ would indeed suggest that passenger should have its own row to remove conflict with freight. It sounds like ML has discarded this approach ie has killed the bypass and has found some as yet unannounced accord with CN over the Bramalea-Georgetown segment. One wonders how this can be workable west of Toronto when the playing field that VIa faces with HFR east of Toronto is said to be so slanted against passenger. The Halton line is just as busy as the Kingston Sub and the track is more space constrained. Did ML simply cave to whatever CN wants? Or is ML about to get burned?

The other bigger question is whether a new alignment ought to be considered to enable the Pearson Union Station West concept. This might imply a new HSR-friendly alignment running west from Pearson. The Collenette study appeared to contemplate this. While it’s easy to dismiss as “too expensie” and “too far off”, it ought to be inserted in the local land use planning, before more big expensive buildings are built in the way.

- Paul

PS - CN’s use of the Kitchener-London segment is much less intensive. This line is a good candidate to be upgraded in the same way Ottawa-Brockville was, with the “second tier” mixed use format that has been discussed here. People overlook that Smiths Falls-Brockville is used by freight daily, in the wee hours. While freight is handled Kitchener-Stratford-London, making it a predominantly passenger line would not crimp CN’s style as it would on the Kingston Sub or east of Georgetown.

 

[Bordercollie]

Service to Kitchener should be semi-express, yes, regardless of whether it’s GO or VIA. That is indeed what the four-tracking will enable. The end service pattern may be a mixture of GO and VIA trains, although one hears interesting rumours otherwise.

The “HFR paradigm“ would indeed suggest that passenger should have its own row to remove conflict with freight. It sounds like ML has discarded this approach ie has killed the bypass and has found some as yet unannounced accord with CN over the Bramalea-Georgetown segment. One wonders how this can be workable west of Toronto when the playing field that VIa faces with HFR east of Toronto is said to be so slanted against passenger. The Halton line is just as busy as the Kingston Sub and the track is more space constrained. Did ML simply cave to whatever CN wants? Or is ML about to get burned?

The other bigger question is whether a new alignment ought to be considered to enable the Pearson Union Station West concept. This might imply a new HSR-friendly alignment running west from Pearson. The Collenette study appeared to contemplate this. While it’s easy to dismiss as “too expensie” and “too far off”, it ought to be inserted in the local land use planning, before more big expensive buildings are built in the way.

- Paul

PS - CN’s use of the Kitchener-London segment is much less intensive. This line is a good candidate to be upgraded in the same way Ottawa-Brockville was, with the “second tier” mixed use format that has been discussed here. People overlook that Smiths Falls-Brockville is used by freight daily, in the wee hours. While freight is handled Kitchener-Stratford-London, making it a predominantly passenger line would not crimp CN’s style as it would on the Kingston Sub or east of Georgetown.

To be honest, if they could run at 90-100mph for the majority of the route, it would be better than driving.

 

[kEiThZ]

I think VIA should tell Queen's Park that HFR West is conditional on Metrolinx building the freight bypass. In exchange, the feds need to get rolling on the Pearson hub.

 

[crs1026]

I think VIA should tell Queen's Park that HFR West is conditional on Metrolinx building the freight bypass. In exchange, the feds need to get rolling on the Pearson hub.

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that all this delay is all, indeed, a poker match over who pays for what. But you give VIA a lot of credit for having leverage. My theory was the reverse - it’s QP telling VIA to pay for the bypass because QP can live with whatever CN allows GO, and for all they care VIA can take the table scraps.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

VIA can use the Dundas sub. They don't need to use the line to Kitchener.

Also VIA is a crown corporation which has a federal mandate, has no relationship with the province of Ontario.

 

[roger1818]

To be honest, if they could run at 90-100mph for the majority of the route, it would be better than driving.

That is the idea behind HFR in general. Be fast, frequent, reliable and affordable enough to be competitive with driving. There is a trade-off between speed and ticket price, something that HSR or bust zeolites seem to ignore.

 

[crs1026]

VIA can use the Dundas sub. They don't need to use the line to Kitchener.

They can't use the Dundas Sub to serve Kitchener, which is a huge market on its own.

Also, don't assume that VIA has the option to add service on the Dundas Sub. The may be close to the limit of what CN will allow. Same issue as east of Toronto - the key element to boosting ridership is frequency, but freight interference prevents that. VIA should not try to push CN much further on the Dundas, but work towards something on the Kitchener line where CN may be more flexible.

Also VIA is a crown corporation which has a federal mandate, has no relationship with the province of Ontario.

VIA and Ontario have a huge interdependency in transportation delivery. We will only have effective transportation if they are able to cooperate and work to common purpose. Siloing the two on a "no relationship" theme is exactly what has been getting in the way. Plus, in the end Ottawa does pay a share of provincially mandated transportation costs, and the Province is forced to negotiate with CN/CP under federal governance, so let's not pretend Ottawa is absent from that relationship.

I believe VIA's mandate in the Ontario-Quebec corridor is "intercity". It's perverse how that mandate mostly ends at Toronto, leaving Southern Ontario service to the Province. High Frequency service needs to be pushed further west.

- Paul

 

[EnviroTO]

VIA can use the Dundas sub. They don't need to use the line to Kitchener.

For a project that exists to run passenger trains on lines that don't have freight train conflicts, I'm not sure how the Dundas Subdivision is a solution.