VIA Rail

[micheal_can]

I feel like "Union Station" is a bit overused though, and I hope that if they do go for a name change, they try to come up with something more original.

Like Ottawa Station? Or Tremblay? Original names are confusing. Stations should be simple and easy to connect them with the locale.

No. The O-Train uses a different station in a separate building adjacent to the Ottawa Station. The land the O-Train is using is mostly owned by the NCC (though they are using a corner of VIA Rail's land) and the land Ottawa station is on is owned by VIA Rail.

View attachment 276661
Made with Google My Maps
Imagery ©2020 CNES / Airbus, Maxar Technologies

View attachment 276670
From VIA Rail - Proposed Elevated Passenger Platforms for Ottawa Train Station

Do you mean just like how the TTC uses a different area for their "union" subway station? Or their Streetcar station named Union? Or the Go Bus station called union?
The old union stations were many different companies using the same tracks. Taking Toronto's for example, the bus, streetcar and subway stations all are not really a union station, but are still called that.
Maybe a better name could be Intermodal station. Then it would be more accurate.

 

[roger1818]

Like Ottawa Station? Or Tremblay? Original names are confusing. Stations should be simple and easy to connect them with the locale.

Exactly. In Ottawa it is especially difficult as all station names need to be bilingual.

Do you mean just like how the TTC uses a different area for their "union" subway station? Or their Streetcar station named Union? Or the Go Bus station called union?
The old union stations were many different companies using the same tracks. Taking Toronto's for example, the bus, streetcar and subway stations all are not really a union station, but are still called that.
Maybe a better name could be Intermodal station. Then it would be more accurate.

The TTC named their subway and streetcar stations after the train station they were adjacent to. Arguably they are slightly different since they use the same building as the trains, but they don't contribute to it being a Union Station. Similar for the GO buses. Stations are often named after the landmark they are close to. For example, the Parliament O-Train station in Ottawa is named after the nearby parliament buildings even though the station has nothing to do with houses of parliament and they aren't even connected.

I don't disagree that calling the O-Train station Tremblay is problematic and should be revisited. I do understand why they didn't want to call it train though (calling a train station "Train" is strange). I don't think it is as big a problem as Urban Sky is making it out to be though. When you arrive, all you need to know is you need to find the "O-Train" station and that can be solved with appropriate wayfinding inside VIA's station. That is no different to knowing that you need to find an "S-Bahn" station when you fly into many German cities. When it is time to leave, you have then become more familiar with the city and its transit system, so while needing to know that the statin you need to go to is called Tremblay is not optimal, it isn't that hard to figure out (they likely came from that station when they arrived).

One could equally say VIA (and Exo) is guilty of the same thing with Dorval station being the station for Montréal–Trudeau International Airport. How would a tourist be expected to know that it was previously called Montréal–Dorval International Airport because it is located in the suburb of Dorval?

I would say the situation in Ottawa is better it is in Brussels. There, none of the international trains go to Brussels Central Station, but instead go to Bruxelles-Midi. To get downtown, you need to transfer to one of the local trains (and your ticket to/from Midi will cover your fare to/from Central station). However, figuring out which train you need to transfer to and which platform it departs from (it constantly changes) is not easy to figure out as a tourist (we ended up having to ask someone).

 

[ARG1]

Like Ottawa Station? Or Tremblay? Original names are confusing. Stations should be simple and easy to connect them with the locale.

Counter-Example: Grand Central, Penn Station, King's Cross, and Paddington Stations in NYC and London. With maybe the exception of Grand Central, they're for the most part unique names and I'm fairly certain nobody gets confused by them.

 

[Allandale25]

AFAIK, it was always theirs and is some type of service building (it has the same, "award wining," blank concrete wall architecture). I believe it is connected to the station via a tunnel. If you look back at old areal photographs of the station, you will see that it used to have tracks filling in the space between the buildings, but at some point the land was sold and the tracks were torn up.

View attachment 276695
1991 aerial photograph from geoOttawa Beta

View attachment 276698
2017 aerial photograph from geoOttawa Beta

Fascinating to see the comparison.

 

[lenaitch]

I suppose the actual historic name and whether or not they accurately reflect current usage is less important than the ability to unambiguously identify them to unfamiliar travellers. Whether the destination is 'Lester B. Pearson International Airport', 'Toronto- Pearson' or even 'Malton' is probably less important than clearly signing how folks can get there (I have no clue why TTC St. Andrews is called what it is, but know it is at University and King). If you want to fly to North Bay (when you could), that fact that it is called the Jack Garland Airport if probably on the bottom of the list of importance.

 

[reaperexpress]

They can get started early and build the new intercity bus terminal there!

I like the idea of consolidating the intercity bus terminal to Ottawa Station for obvious interconnectivity reasons. But I think it would be better to put it on the north side for better access from highway 417 and for much shorter transfers to the LRT. The current passenger pickup (PPUDO) area could be repurposed into a bus terminal, while passenger pickup moves to a new facility on the south side of the station.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I like the idea of consolidating the intercity bus terminal to Ottawa Station for obvious interconnectivity reasons. But I think it would be better to put it on the north side for better access from highway 417 and for much shorter transfers to the LRT. The current passenger pickup (PPUDO) area could be repurposed into a bus terminal, while passenger pickup moves to a new facility on the south side of the station.

It was honestly very nice when the bus pickup was right at the main door during LRT construction.

 

[kEiThZ]

I like the idea of consolidating the intercity bus terminal to Ottawa Station for obvious interconnectivity reasons. But I think it would be better to put it on the north side for better access from highway 417 and for much shorter transfers to the LRT. The current passenger pickup (PPUDO) area could be repurposed into a bus terminal, while passenger pickup moves to a new facility on the south side of the station.

They have two parking lots. Build a parking structure in the larger lot to the East, which will be needed for the higher traffic levels with HFR. And repurpose the smaller Western lot behind the LRT station for a bus terminal.

I really don't the fascination some people have for locating the bus station so far from the LRT.

 

[roger1818]

I like the idea of consolidating the intercity bus terminal to Ottawa Station for obvious interconnectivity reasons. But I think it would be better to put it on the north side for better access from highway 417 and for much shorter transfers to the LRT.

I agree 100%.

The current passenger pickup (PPUDO) area could be repurposed into a bus terminal, while passenger pickup moves to a new facility on the south side of the station.

I don't see the need to have any passenger activity moved to the south side beyond having a secondary entrance there. I have heard that VIA rents out some of the unused office space in the station, though I can't find any confirmation of this. From what I can see, it looks like there would be plenty of room to have a bus terminal within the station.

They have two parking lots. Build a parking structure in the larger lot to the East, which will be needed for the higher traffic levels with HFR. And repurpose the smaller Western lot behind the LRT station for a bus terminal.

That would probably be the optimal solution. My gut feeling is that it is the western part of the terminal building that isn't used by VIA, so opening that up for use by greyhound et. al. shouldnt' be too difucult.

Another option would be to cover the O-Train tracks inside the loop and put bus bays there.

I really don't the fascination some people have for locating the bus station so far from the LRT.

I agree!

This is of course assuming that Greyhound wants to move to the VIA Rail station. It is a decent location, but not the only one.

 

[nfitz]

Not sure why everyone is worrying about the name of Train train station ... which really doesn't impact people. What about bigger issues ... like a 20-minute walk from the station to the big employers on Terminal Avenue ... whose parking lots back onto the Train train station platforms!

 

[sacred]

Not sure why everyone is worrying about the name of Train train station ... which really doesn't impact people. What about bigger issues ... like a 20-minute walk from the station to the big employers on Terminal Avenue ... whose parking lots back onto the Train train station platforms!

We are talking about that, we've talked about redevelopment on the south side of the station which would make both stations easily accessible

 

[roger1818]

Not sure why everyone is worrying about the name of Train train station ... which really doesn't impact people. What about bigger issues ... like a 20-minute walk from the station to the big employers on Terminal Avenue ... whose parking lots back onto the Train train station platforms!

The Elevated Passenger Platforms Proposal shows an entrance on the south side of the station, but it isn't listed as part of any of the phases. Having this would increase the foot traffic through the station and would make it more feasible to add amenities to the station.

Interestingly the renderings also show a new canopy over the path from a door (that is currently not publicly accessible) on the western wall, close to the O-Train Station. It would be nice if they could make that door available (with or without the canopy).

From VIA Rail - Proposed Elevated Passenger Platforms for Ottawa Train Station pg.7

From VIA Rail - Proposed Elevated Passenger Platforms for Ottawa Train Station pg. 10

 

[roger1818]

I have heard that VIA rents out some of the unused office space in the station, though I can't find any confirmation of this.

I found some evidence to back this up. Looking at Google Street View (2018), you can see signs for several businesses (Architecture49, Armserv - Preston Phipps, and ElisDon). None of them list an address on Tremblay on their websites, but this Technical Manual from Preston Phipps does list an address of "200 Tremblay Road, Room 204" on the last page. Also, the ORSA lists "152-200 Tremblay Road" as the address for Architecture49. I am guessing they have all since moved out. One would have to go to the station to see if there are any new signs on the doors.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Without going digging for specific contracts, those all sound like businesses that have ongoing work with VIA.

 

[Urban Sky]

No. The O-Train uses a different station in a separate building adjacent to the Ottawa Station. The land the O-Train is using is mostly owned by the NCC (though they are using a corner of VIA Rail's land) and the land Ottawa station is on is owned by VIA Rail.

I'm not sure why you point this out, but the name of transit stations usually reflects what they are built next to rather than who owns the land they are built on...

I noticed that, but government agencies are not immune from making mistakes.

That is of course uncontested...

Thanks for sharing the picture! There is certainly no debate that at one time it was a union station (lowercase u and s), but the debate is if it was ever given the official name "Union Station."

...and following some debate which our little dispute has sparked on groups.io, I have to concede that even though "Union Station" seems to have been the intended name for the new rail station built on Tremblay Road, the name was changed to "Ottawa Station" before it was opened. The full debate can be accessed directly on groups.io, but I'm just quoting the two older posts with which Tom Box introduced the debate:

Furthermore, Tom Box points out that this change in name seems to have been causing confusion from the day of opening and I'm kind of reluctant to hold the editors of the "European Rail Timetable" to higher standards than "The Globe and Mail":

[...]

A brief story on p. 35 of the July 30, 1966 Globe and Mail says, "The capital's new Union Station, two miles from downtown, will open tomorrow with the CPR's North Shore dayliner to Montreal scheduled to be the first train out at 9:05 a.m." So there was confusion over the name from the outset.

https://groups.io/g/Canadian-Passenger-Rail/message/90359

According to that map, VIA owns the building on Terminal Street that backs onto the station. Good on them for having the foresight to acquire it, since it keeps the door open for an entrance on the south side of the tracks.

AFAIK, it was always theirs and is some type of service building (it has the same, "award wining," blank concrete wall architecture). I believe it is connected to the station via a tunnel. If you look back at old areal photographs of the station, you will see that it used to have tracks filling in the space between the buildings, but at some point the land was sold and the tracks were torn up.

I'm almost certain that @roger1818 is correct and that the passenger tunnel connects to that building. However, opening that tunnel as a pedestrian thoroughfare would cause severe crowding and crowd control issues and could consequently be highly problematic...

Exactly. In Ottawa it is especially difficult as all station names need to be bilingual.

Yes, that's much more trickier than I thought, now that we know that "Union" doesn't work in French...

I don't disagree that calling the O-Train station Tremblay is problematic and should be revisited. I do understand why they didn't want to call it train though (calling a train station "Train" is strange). I don't think it is as big a problem as Urban Sky is making it out to be though. When you arrive, all you need to know is you need to find the "O-Train" station and that can be solved with appropriate wayfinding inside VIA's station. That is no different to knowing that you need to find an "S-Bahn" station when you fly into many German cities. When it is time to leave, you have then become more familiar with the city and its transit system, so while needing to know that the statin you need to go to is called Tremblay is not optimal, it isn't that hard to figure out (they likely came from that station when they arrived).

Visitors don't necessarily leave a city the same way they arrived in it: during my first two visits to Canada, I landed at Ottawa Airport and I started my first ever trip with VIA Rail at Ottawa Station (note the correct use of name! ). Also tourists are quite likely to just jump into the first taxi they see after arriving in a new city (thus paying little attention to where the terminal of their arrival is located), leaving the task of figuring out the city's transit network for after they've checked in at their hotel and stored their luggage.

And as for your example with German cities, this is how they name the rail transit stations of their largest hubs (provided for the 11 largest airports I found listed here):

City	Rail Transit Station name of Airport	Rail Transit Station name of main rail station
Frankfurt	Frankfurt Flughafen Regionalbahnhof	Hauptbahnhof or Frankfurt Hbf
München	Flughafen München (Munich Airport) or München Flughafen Terminal	Hauptbahnhof (Central Station) or München Hbf
Düsseldorf	Düsseldorf-Flughafen Terminal	Düsseldorf Hbf
Berlin-Tegel	no rail transit	Hauptbahnhof or Berlin Hbf
Hamburg	Hamburg Airport (Flughafen)	Hauptbahnhof or Hamburg Hbf
Köln	Köln / Bonn Flughafen	Köln Hbf, Dom/Hbf or Breslauer Platz/Hbf (i.e. 3 adjacent stations)
Berlin-Schönefeld	Flughafen Berlin-Schönefeld	Hauptbahnhof or Berlin Hbf
Stuttgart	Flughafen/Messe or Stuttgart Flughafen/Messe	Hauptbahnhof or Stuttgart Hbf
Nürnberg	Flughafen	Hauptbahnhof or Nürnberg Hbf
Bremen	Flughafen	Hauptbahnhof or Bremen Hbf

I think we can all note a pattern here (and you now know what "Airport" and "Central Rail Station" are called in Geman - and how the latter is commonly abbreviated)...