VIA Rail

[ssiguy2]

Nope. They need to finish that super long study they have going on which runs till 2022.

If the Liberals are in a minority, would they even bother with any projects on VIA, when they might funds more immediately to buy votes? I'm not even sure a Liberal-NDP coalition would prioritize HFR to the point of firming up funding and launching procurement.

Don't agree as I actually think the opposite maybe the case. The NDP have their base in Central/South Western Ontario and they will want to show their constituents that voting NDP and working with the Liberals was beneficial. If HSF goes thru the NDP will demand that it is not just a Tor/Ott/Mon route but the entire Corridor and if there is any segment delays it will be from Mon to QC as QC rebuffed both the Liberals and NDP.

Much will also depend on VIA rail itself. So far, VIA has done an incredibly poor job of explaining to the public what exactly HFR is and how will benefit them. For the vast majority of people, HFR, means only that, more trains and to most that doesn't mean much. To the average person that means that there will simply be more unreliable slow boats to China than there are now...............hardly enough to get people excited about or willing to see their tax dollars going there and of course the less excited the people, the less likely Ottawa will support it.

If VIA wants the money, they have to tell the people that not only will the train service will be more frequent but how much more dependable it will be and most relevantly for the average person, how much time will they save going from A to B. Until they clearly state the above, public support will be very limited and hence so will Ottawa's attention.

 

[crs1026]

^Rail may be a vote getter in southern Ontario, but it’s a we-they proposition to the nation as a whole.
As much as I support HFR, I suspect all federal parties except maybe the Greens have taken the project off the table.
A green initiative that creates jobs and spends money in Ontario would play particularly badly in Alberta right now.
Oh, and SNC Lavalin would almost certainly be bidding on the capital work.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

You would have to run a regional service from Capreol all the way to Winnipeg, which in the current schedule takes 27 hours. RDCs don't have any sleeping accommodations (even for on-train staff), which means you would either have to layover (like the Skeena does in Prince George) or replace the on-train staff half-way. However, given the length of the journey (7 hours more net travel time than on the Skeena!) and the possible scale of delays, you would have to layover for 8-12 hours or switch on-train staff twice, which can realistically only happen in Hornepayne and Sioux Lookout, but let me know if you could find any accommodation in Hornepayne which can be reached without someone picking up and driving you to the station because I didn't. Also, such a service would be completely useless, as someone traveling from, say, Gogoma to Winnipeg would now have to pay two nights of hotel stays on top of the train ticket.

Therefore, I will refer you to the full exchange we already had here back in January:

Agree that it would pose a challenge and certainly RDCs would be unsuitable. I don't know if onboard crew change points are the same as operating crews. I would think the mandate to maintain a regional/remote service is to serve the enroute communities, particularly those without road access, rather than provide an inter-city service.

 

[ssiguy2]

^Rail may be a vote getter in southern Ontario, but it’s a we-they proposition to the nation as a whole.
As much as I support HFR, I suspect all federal parties except maybe the Greens have taken the project off the table.
A green initiative that creates jobs and spends money in Ontario would play particularly badly in Alberta right now.
Oh, and SNC Lavalin would almost certainly be bidding on the capital work.

- Paul

Actually, Alberta would support investment in our rails with Higher speed and frequency rail but only if they get their share of the pie. The good news, is that outside the Corridor, HFR is only financially viable in the Edm/RD/Cal corridor. The fact that you can get to Prince Rupert from Edmonton but not to Calgary speaks volumes about how political the routes are. better a faster rail connections are one of the few areas where Quebecers, Ontarians, and Albertans are all on the same side.

 

[smallspy]

I remember the wye coming up when there was some discussion about White River switching to locohaul and there was some concern that it might be too short to turn a locohaul trainset (thus "ease of turning" above).

I can't find it's length right now, but there are some constraints to the wye as it abuts right against the river. It may be only about 250 feet long, which may cause some operational headaches if they do switch to loco-hauled equipment on the line, although it certainly wouldn't be show-stopping by any means.

Thanks for the info on the sidings - I guess 27 hours (or thereabouts) is as good as it gets without upgrades or more sidings to cut down dwell time.

The problem with that stretch has more to do with how many freights there are than anything. (Although in fairness, the traffic and delays on this part of the line pale compared to the delays that the Canadian faces on the section west of Winnipeg.) The directional running north of Perry Sound does help immensely, and with GO seemingly extending CN's double track south of Lake Simcoe for them, this too is helping the traffic flow more smoothly.

All things being equal, several miles of double track around Armstrong would help the fluidity of the line across the top of the province, and apparently this is something that is on CN's radar as they have been lengthening sidings up there. But this is also some of the most rugged terrain that they operate in east of the Rockies, and so it isn't something that is likely to be completed in short order.

Dan

 

[robmausser]

This is a bit of an aside but are the new Seimens trains gonna be used on the Corridor or on the HFR route? Because I was looking up and researching the Talgo rains on the cascades line for Amtrak and they use trucks between each car and tilting technology to increase the speed around curves.

Because one of the downsides of the HFR route is that there are many curves and I'm hoping by using this style of train set the trip time can be decreased. On the cascades line by using this type of train set they decreased the trip time by 30 minutes from Portland to Vancouver.

I don't mean it has to be this exact train set but I would hope that some kind of tilting technology and using articulated trucks between each carriage in order to decrease travel time along the HFR line would have been investigated

 

[littlewill1166]

This is a bit of an aside but are the new Seimens trains gonna be used on the Corridor or on the HFR route? Because I was looking up and researching the Talgo rains on the cascades line for Amtrak and they use trucks between each car and tilting technology to increase the speed around curves.

Because one of the downsides of the HFR route is that there are many curves and I'm hoping by using this style of train set the trip time can be decreased. On the cascades line by using this type of train set they decreased the trip time by 30 minutes from Portland to Vancouver.

I don't mean it has to be this exact train set but I would hope that some kind of tilting technology and using articulated trucks between each carriage in order to decrease travel time along the HFR line would have been investigated

I think that the current order is for the corridor, and that the cars for HFR are a seperate option (assuming HFR even happens).

 

[dowlingm]

I don't mean it has to be this exact train set but I would hope that some kind of tilting technology and using articulated trucks between each carriage in order to decrease travel time along the HFR line would have been investigated

Amtrak’s Avelia order for the NEC could form the basis for a HSR trainset. Not holding my breath on that though.

 

[robmausser]

Amtrak’s Avelia order for the NEC could form the basis for a HSR trainset. Not holding my breath on that though.

Perhaps we could get the same coach car technology as the Avelia but with diesels for the HFR plan. I doubt we are getting electrification even at 177kmh at first.

Apparently those new trainsets for the Acela are shaving more time off the twisty northeast corridor. Those turns are not being taken at HSR speeds, so I assume it would benefit non high speed train systems as well.

Its a concern for the HFR plan too, as parts are very twisty up to Peterborough.

Regardless we need to chose tech that will squeeze every last minute out of the HFR route; trains that can go faster around curves and can accelerate and decelerate quickly for each straightaway, since only so much time can be "made up" on the straightaways with a 177kmh speed limit.

 

[smallspy]

Any news on the progress with the new trains, any manufacturing started yet? I do think the new trains will be quite nice as a modernizing factor for Via.

Manufacturing doesn't start until late next year. They're going to spend the better part of the next year finalizing the design.

Not only that, but Siemens is going to be pretty busy for the next little while with the CALIDOT order, as well as LRVs for San Francisco and Seattle. They aren't likely to have the capacity to start building the VIA order until late next year at the earliest.

Dan

 

[mdrejhon]

They are among the best diesels on North American networks so I am rather excited to ride a Canadian equivalent of Brightline here.

I hope VIA HFR proceeds even with just these trains -- with a path to future electrification.

Perhaps the widely predicted Liberal-NDP minority (or coaliition) will make it happen. Minority goverments tend to get more infrastructure projects started -- they trip some fence-sitting dominoes as a quid-pro-quo for supporting each other's initiatives. I'm dissapointed VIA HFR has not started earlier but I think its time will finally come during this administration.

 

[kEiThZ]

Perhaps the widely predicted Liberal-NDP minority (or coaliition) will make it happen. Minority goverments tend to get more infrastructure projects started -- they trip some fence-sitting dominoes as a quid-pro-quo for supporting each other's initiatives.

I hope. But, I wonder if social programs will suck out all the oxygen in the room.....

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I hope. But, I wonder if social programs will suck out all the oxygen in the room.....

It might make the infra money flow a little faster - but whether it will flow fast enough before the 2 year best before date of minority governments is another question.

AoD

 

[Urban Sky]

Perhaps we could get the same coach car technology as the Avelia but with diesels for the HFR plan. I doubt we are getting electrification even at 177kmh at first.

Apparently those new trainsets for the Acela are shaving more time off the twisty northeast corridor. Those turns are not being taken at HSR speeds, so I assume it would benefit non high speed train systems as well.

Its a concern for the HFR plan too, as parts are very twisty up to Peterborough.

Regardless we need to chose tech that will squeeze every last minute out of the HFR route; trains that can go faster around curves and can accelerate and decelerate quickly for each straightaway, since only so much time can be "made up" on the straightaways with a 177kmh speed limit.

They are among the best diesels on North American networks so I am rather excited to ride a Canadian equivalent of Brightline here.

I hope VIA HFR proceeds even with just these trains -- with a path to future electrification.

Perhaps the widely predicted Liberal-NDP minority (or coaliition) will make it happen. Minority goverments tend to get more infrastructure projects started -- they trip some fence-sitting dominoes as a quid-pro-quo for supporting each other's initiatives. I'm dissapointed VIA HFR has not started earlier but I think its time will finally come during this administration.

As I've already pointed out in Post #5,751, the RFQ documents indicate that the trainsets required for HFR are already included as an option in the ongoing Fleet Renewal Programme and that they will allow for partial electrification (i.e. dual-mode operations):

(5) VIA Rail’s current Corridor services are provided on non-electrified infrastructure.
However, over the thirty year life cycle of the trainsets, VIA Rail intends to reduce its use of fossil fuels. Therefore, VIA Rail is working on a long term plan to build its own dedicated infrastructure for passenger service in the Corridor that could be electrified to reduce the use of fossil fuels and allow operation at up
to 125 mph. This long term plan has been presented by VIA Rail to its shareholder, the Government of Canada, and has yet to be approved. It should be noted that portions of the new routes on this infrastructure would remain non-electrified. Communities located in the current Corridor would also continue to be served by VIA Rail on the current non-electrified infrastructure.

(6) Options to acquire additional trainsets will be principally predicated on the Government of Canada's decision regarding VIA Rail's long term plan to build its own dedicated infrastructure. In the event that VIA Rail is given the authority to build its own infrastructure in the Corridor but such infrastructure is not electrified, then additional diesel only trainsets will be required to enable increased service frequencies. If VIA Rail is given the authority to build its own infrastructure and electrification is required, then the additional trainsets must be capable of both diesel and electric operation (dual-mode) at up to 125 mph, with seamless transition, and bi-directional operation. If the decision on VIA Rail's long term plan and the timeframe to implement this decision is not yet established at the time of the order for
the additional trainsets, then the delivery of the additional trainsets could be deferred until the decision and schedule is available.

 

[Allandale25]

Via a FB group:

In one of the comments when someone asked if it was a new VIA coach: "...,not VIA specifically but is same style of coach they’ll be getting for the new trainsets. Off for testing as they’ve never been exposed to our winters in service yet."

Additional photo by same author above.