VIA Rail

[SamStar]

There is some action going on at Ottawa station. The construction of the elevated platform has started and excavation crews were working today. Anybody knows when the project will be completed?

 

[reaperexpress]

This is mostly a non-sequitur, though it does have some connection to the Banff-Calgary services.

I was looking through the 1977 VIA rail schedule that was posted earlier by Urban Sky (thanks again for that!) and I wanted to get a sense of where the now-discontinued services where, so I roughly plotted them in Google Earth.

It looks like the total kilometres of track covered by VIA rail today is only about half of the kilometres they covered in 1977. As I said before, many of these runs didn't stand a chance in the modern era, but some of them could well have.

Existing passenger services are in blue, while now-discontinued services from 1977 are shown in red. The lines I think have no chance in the modern era are shown with thin lines, while the lines which might have some merit are shown with thicker lines.

Western Canada

Ontario

Eastern Canada

 

[JohnnyRenton]

This is mostly a non-sequitur, though it does have some connection to the Banff-Calgary services.

I was looking through the 1977 VIA rail schedule that was posted earlier by Urban Sky (thanks again for that!) and I wanted to get a sense of where the now-discontinued services where, so I roughly plotted them in Google Earth.

It looks like the total kilometres of track covered by VIA rail today is only about half of the kilometres they covered in 1977. As I said before, many of these runs didn't stand a chance in the modern era, but some of them could well have.

Existing passenger services are in blue, while now-discontinued services from 1977 are shown in red. The lines I think have no chance in the modern era are shown with thin lines, while the lines which might have some merit are shown with thicker lines.

Western Canada
View attachment 96847

Ontario
View attachment 96846

Eastern Canada
View attachment 96845

Thats a super handy reference. Thanks for sharing that!

At the moment there really are not too many that would make sense to bring back. I know the route to Gaspe could come back if they fix the bad sections of track, but information is non-existent how that is, or isn't, coming along. Obviously a few of the routes are covered with the HFR proposal. Outside of that Calgary-Edmonton would make sense, and maybe the Calgary-Banff section, and service to Sherbooke, QC.

Obviously VIA will never be that big again but expansion on some of the discontinued routes, and perhaps some new ones, is still possible for sure...in time.

 

[MisterF]

I'm mostly in agreement.

Though, keep in mind this line is in the shambles and is total rebuild.

Also, the spur to Wasaga has challenges.

You do a short 3-4km spur into the south/west end of town. But that's the opposite end as most of the non-beach attractions, and the biggest, most used beaches.

There's really no where to run the train into town from that side.

So either its a bus connection;

Or you bring the spur around to the logical side, though their downtown, by Beach #1.

But that's a much longer spur.

Yes the line would have to be rebuilt but that would be cheaper than twinning Highway 26. It's mostly arrow-straight and much shorter than what Via wants to rebuild for its proposed HFR line, so it's not without precedent. The line being useful to Wasaga Beach is a challenge because it doesn't go through the town itself, but I think tapping that market in some way is an idea worth exploring. Talk of restoring service on this line in the past has mostly been about it being a ski train to Collingwood.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The collingwood line is also very straight, only a single curve on the whole thing from Barrie, and even the curve has a massive radius.

Would have the added benefit of servicing Angus, a fast growing community west of Barrie. I agree that the corridor could work, the trip from Barrie to Collingwood could probably be made in less than 30 minutes on the train, compared to a 45 minute drive today. If the Barrie line gets the 3rd track that GO seems to be planning that would allow for express trains, I could see around 2 hour trip times from Union to Collingwood, comparable to freeflow traffic travel times from Toronto.

The only really restrictive thing you are probably looking at is cost. I could see it costing upwards of a couple hundred million to put in place, even with no new spurs and just a new station in downtown Collingwood. Plus there is the issue of the location of destinations in Collingwood-Wasaga - spread out and low density. I imagine you could run a shuttle if you had to to the ski hills and beaches though.

 

[downtownordinary]

The collingwood line is also very straight, only a single curve on the whole thing from Barrie, and even the curve has a massive radius.

Would have the added benefit of servicing Angus, a fast growing community west of Barrie. I agree that the corridor could work, the trip from Barrie to Collingwood could probably be made in less than 30 minutes on the train, compared to a 45 minute drive today. If the Barrie line gets the 3rd track that GO seems to be planning that would allow for express trains, I could see around 2 hour trip times from Union to Collingwood, comparable to freeflow traffic travel times from Toronto.

The only really restrictive thing you are probably looking at is cost. I could see it costing upwards of a couple hundred million to put in place, even with no new spurs and just a new station in downtown Collingwood. Plus there is the issue of the location of destinations in Collingwood-Wasaga - spread out and low density. I imagine you could run a shuttle if you had to to the ski hills and beaches though.

I've been thinking about a Barrie-Collingwood train recently too, I'm not sure a downtown Collingwood station makes sense any more. A station in south Collingwood might make more sense (near Poplar Sideroad) That way it's more accessible to Wasaga beach by bus and not have the need for a separate stop further south only marginally serving Wasaga anyways. Also having the station south of Collingwood may allow for an eventual extension to Blue Mountain that bypasses Collingwood. Still sort of pie-in-the-sky thinking but could be interesting.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Yes the line would have to be rebuilt but that would be cheaper than twinning Highway 26. It's mostly arrow-straight and much shorter than what Via wants to rebuild for its proposed HFR line, so it's not without precedent. The line being useful to Wasaga Beach is a challenge because it doesn't go through the town itself, but I think tapping that market in some way is an idea worth exploring. Talk of restoring service on this line in the past has mostly been about it being a ski train to Collingwood.

The collingwood line is also very straight, only a single curve on the whole thing from Barrie, and even the curve has a massive radius.

Would have the added benefit of servicing Angus, a fast growing community west of Barrie. I agree that the corridor could work, the trip from Barrie to Collingwood could probably be made in less than 30 minutes on the train, compared to a 45 minute drive today. If the Barrie line gets the 3rd track that GO seems to be planning that would allow for express trains, I could see around 2 hour trip times from Union to Collingwood, comparable to freeflow traffic travel times from Toronto.

The only really restrictive thing you are probably looking at is cost. I could see it costing upwards of a couple hundred million to put in place, even with no new spurs and just a new station in downtown Collingwood. Plus there is the issue of the location of destinations in Collingwood-Wasaga - spread out and low density. I imagine you could run a shuttle if you had to to the ski hills and beaches though.

I've been thinking about a Barrie-Collingwood train recently too, I'm not sure a downtown Collingwood station makes sense any more. A station in south Collingwood might make more sense (near Poplar Sideroad) That way it's more accessible to Wasaga beach by bus and not have the need for a separate stop further south only marginally serving Wasaga anyways. Also having the station south of Collingwood may allow for an eventual extension to Blue Mountain that bypasses Collingwood. Still sort of pie-in-the-sky thinking but could be interesting.

Love the discussion about Collingwood service - I'd love to see it one day. I made a Barrie Collingwood Railway thread if we want to discuss some stuff there too, to keep the VIA one clutter free It is an important discussion to have as one day it could see rail service once more.

 

[muller877]

. The Barrie GO line is being upgraded already and a Collingwood train would simply be an extension of that. Wasaga Beach and Blue Mountain are compact areas where people tend to stay in one location, and between them and Collingwood they attract a lot of traffic year round. And they're all a pain to get to.

I also think that regular rail service would be feasible from Vancouver to Whistler and Montreal to Mont-Tremblant, assuming the tracks could be re-laid in the case of the latter. The fact that we're talking about these in hypothetical terms shows just how much our governments have favoured driving over the decades.

There is regular rail service from North Van to Whistler. A tourist train. But the problem is you need to get to the train station in North Van and at Creekside in Whistler. Cheaper/quicker to take the sea plane from the harbour to Green Lake. And both the train and plane are summer only.

If you were looking at Collingwood it won't really work unless you have a stop in Blue Mountain. But that boat has sailed a while ago with the ROW sold off in Collingwood.

 

[MisterF]

There is regular rail service from North Van to Whistler. A tourist train. But the problem is you need to get to the train station in North Van and at Creekside in Whistler. Cheaper/quicker to take the sea plane from the harbour to Green Lake. And both the train and plane are summer only.

If you were looking at Collingwood it won't really work unless you have a stop in Blue Mountain. But that boat has sailed a while ago with the ROW sold off in Collingwood.

Tourist trains are an extremely niche market. They're basically land cruises, not useful transportation. A real train to Whistler will probably never happen because the government already spent $1 billion on the Sea-to-Sky highway before the Olympics. If a they had put a similar amount into the rail line instead, it would be a whole different transportation picture there now. It would also be much safer and more reliable, especially in winter. Whistler is a very centralized destination. People tend to stay in the village once they're there and get around on foot.

 

[muller877]

Tourist trains are an extremely niche market. They're basically land cruises, not useful transportation. A real train to Whistler will probably never happen because the government already spent $1 billion on the Sea-to-Sky highway before the Olympics. If a they had put a similar amount into the rail line instead, it would be a whole different transportation picture there now. It would also be much safer and more reliable, especially in winter. Whistler is a very centralized destination. People tend to stay in the village once they're there and get around on foot.

The geographical limitations preclude this. You would have to (1) have a tunnel under the harbour from the North Shore to Vancouver proper and (2) you would also relocate the line in Whistler from the east to the west side of Alta Lake (which is fully built out so expropriation of some very expensive homes would be required).

You would also have to get running rights on a single-tracked railway that carries lumber and other heavy loads.

The $1b to rebuild the road is small potatoe's compared to all of this.

 

[MisterF]

The geographical limitations preclude this. You would have to (1) have a tunnel under the harbour from the North Shore to Vancouver proper and (2) you would also relocate the line in Whistler from the east to the west side of Alta Lake (which is fully built out so expropriation of some very expensive homes would be required).

You would also have to get running rights on a single-tracked railway that carries lumber and other heavy loads.

The $1b to rebuild the road is small potatoe's compared to all of this.

Maybe, maybe not. That rail line already crosses to the south shore on an existing bridge, it just lacks a convenient way to get downtown. There would almost certainly be other connectivity options that would be cheaper than a new tunnel.

$1 billion can do a lot. Via Rail is proposing to rebuild a much longer stretch of track (most of the ~870 km route), including a complete rebuild of substandard or nonexistent track, new road crossings and signal system, electrification, relatively high speeds, and some complicated track work. All for $5.25 billion. The line to Whistler, as far as I can tell, is in much better shape than what Via wants to rebuild.

This is a hypothetical conversation though. Since the highway has already been rebuilt I doubt regular rail service will be contemplated anytime soon.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Looks like the Mayor of Perth is speculating that VIA HFR will be in the upcoming Federal budget:

Fenik anticipates Perth-Smiths Falls rail link announcement in federal budget

If funded, VIA HFR would represent the first major inter-city rail investment in decades. I am really excited to learn more about this project.

 

[steveintoronto]

For many of the proposals made in this forum for the last few days, a bus does it better in many ways, not the least cost and directly to destination(s).

 

[JohnnyRenton]

Looks like the Mayor of Perth is speculating that VIA HFR will be in the upcoming Federal budget:

Fenik anticipates Perth-Smiths Falls rail link announcement in federal budget

If funded, VIA HFR would represent the first major inter-city rail investment in decades. I am really excited to learn more about this project.

If this becomes a reality it would be a massive step forward for inter-city rail. Not just for what it will directly, but for what I can also set the stage for in the future. I am really jazzed about this!

 

[steveintoronto]

Looks like the Mayor of Perth is speculating that VIA HFR will be in the upcoming Federal budget:

Fenik anticipates Perth-Smiths Falls rail link announcement in federal budget

If funded, VIA HFR would represent the first major inter-city rail investment in decades. I am really excited to learn more about this project.

Excellent heads up!

Fenik told Perth town council during their meeting on Tuesday, Jan. 24, that the proposal was already in the hands of federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau.

That's about the right timing last I read on it. Something like "Announcement will be made middle of February".

When asked later during a question-and-answer session if VIA Rail Canada was making any noises about the town contributing to the project, Fenik replied: “No, they are not.”

Fenik said he sent a clear message to the VIA Rail representatives that “this community would be 100 per cent behind a rail stop in Perth that would continue on to Smiths Falls,” he said.

But, he did want some recognition for Perth’s heritage reputation. He wanted to see a station built on the site of where the old train station stood. “Not a cookie cutter VIA Rail station, but a heritage one.”

He's getting too carried away. Concentrate on getting then line built, and offer all assistance other than financial, VIA doesn't expect direct local financial assistance. But when it comes to supplying anything beyond a basic for needs station, then *that* becomes the purview of the local municipality. THEY can build the "heritage station" and provide the budget to run it.

As it will stand, they will get a "cookie cutter station", and be thankful for it. Perhaps some of the developers who will cash in from Smith-Falls being back in the game can contribute?