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VIA Rail

crs1026 said:
St-Martin Jct (last major slow point east of Montreal) to Trois Rivieres is 82.3 miles, or 131.7 km. At 170 km/h that's 46 minutes.
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How's it get to St-Martin Jct though - last time I took VIA to Lanoraie it was through the tunnel.

And it certainly wasn't anywhere near 170 km/hr. There's a lot of upgrades required just to achieve that speed. I'm not sure the stations are even there anymore.
 
Around the mountain? Looking at the last VIA schedule to Trois-Rivieres, it was 35 minutes just from Central to St-Martin Jct, through the mountain. Meanwhile going around the mountain is adding up to 40 minutes to the Mascouche train from Central.

So 75 minutes in, and you are still trying to get out of the Montreal suburbs. Then it used to be about 3 hours from there to Gare du Palais. So 4 hours 20 minutes.. Now you can speed it up some, but at the end of the day, I think the 80 minutes from Central to St. Martin can't be made up. Compare to the less than 3 hours 15 minutes they can currently do on the south shore.
 
nfitz said:
Around the mountain? Looking at the last VIA schedule to Trois-Rivieres, it was 35 minutes just from Central to St-Martin Jct, through the mountain. Meanwhile going around the mountain is adding up to 40 minutes to the Mascouche train from Central.

So 75 minutes in, and you are still trying to get out of the Montreal suburbs. Then it used to be about 3 hours from there to Gare du Palais. So 4 hours 20 minutes.. Now you can speed it up some, but at the end of the day, I think the 80 minutes from Central to St. Martin can't be made up. Compare to the less than 3 hours 15 minutes they can currently do on the south shore.
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Something is better than nothing. But if they loose the election it won't get built.
 
Right now VIA takes 2h from Montreal to Brockville direct. If they get Montreal-Ottawa-Brockville to run in 2 hours then there is a huge operational efficiency realized. Montreal to Ottawa seems like it should be possible in around 1h (travelling 187km). VIA is already doing Ottawa to Brockville in 1h 16min (travelling 111km). So it seems possible with the right investment to get Montreal-Ottawa-Brockville to happen in the same time as Montreal-Brockville direct takes today, and as long as that can be achieved without touching the Smith Falls to Brockville segment the investment is 100% applicable to the HFR goal. To me this seems like the minimal investment option.

Getting VIA to run through Peterborough or Trois-Rivieres are obviously much larger investments and because they aren't along a route that VIA travels now to any large degree, there aren't as many options to make incremental investments that immediately add value unless they do those investments in partnership with GO/Metrolinx or EXO/RTM. For example a partnership with GO to launch service Union to Box Grove with a Leaside yard, or EXO to launch a service from Centrale to Repentigny or Mascouche which is slightly more direct than it is today.
 
EnviroTO said:
Right now VIA takes 2h from Montreal to Brockville direct. If they get Montreal-Ottawa-Brockville to run in 2 hours then there is a huge operational efficiency realized. Montreal to Ottawa seems like it should be possible in around 1h (travelling 187km). VIA is already doing Ottawa to Brockville in 1h 16min (travelling 111km). So it seems possible with the right investment to get Montreal-Ottawa-Brockville to happen in the same time as Montreal-Brockville direct takes today, and as long as that can be achieved without touching the Smith Falls to Brockville segment the investment is 100% applicable to the HFR goal. To me this seems like the minimal investment option.

Getting VIA to run through Peterborough or Trois-Rivieres are obviously much larger investments and because they aren't along a route that VIA travels now to any large degree, there aren't as many options to make incremental investments that immediately add value unless they do those investments in partnership with GO/Metrolinx or EXO/RTM. For example a partnership with GO to launch service Union to Box Grove with a Leaside yard, or EXO to launch a service from Centrale to Repentigny or Mascouche which is slightly more direct than it is today.
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Trenton junction and port hope are already there. It wouldn't take much to extend the platform or run 4 car bi-levels to those stations.

Why not make use of what's there already?

The ridership is not there because the trains don't stop there. There has been a lot more development in-between those areas.

Isn't GO going to be expending into Bowmanville using the CP Belleville sub? It can continue on to Trenton Junction and cross back to the Kingston Sub.
 
nfitz said:
How's it get to St-Martin Jct though - last time I took VIA to Lanoraie it was through the tunnel.

And it certainly wasn't anywhere near 170 km/hr. There's a lot of upgrades required just to achieve that speed. I'm not sure the stations are even there anymore.
Click to expand...
That’s the 492 Million dollar question…. Do they follow the old CP routing to Parc, maybe ending at Lucien L’Allier…. Or do they go around the connecting track at Mascouche and take the CN to Ballantyne?
Neither option is that appealing…. And the time involved makes the idea of 200 km/h in the middle a bit moot. The last ten miles into Quebec will be pretty slow also.
if that’s what this announcement is all about, it will be interesting to see how the money is stretched to deliver the requiring signalling and traffic control.
Just upgrading crossings will be expensive as many don’t even have gates, and the physical condition of the crissings is often poor.
And then there are the stretches if bolted rail….
All fixable, but the dollars only stretch so far.

- Paul
 
Bordercollie said:
Trenton junction and port hope are already there. It wouldn't take much to extend the platform or run 4 car bi-levels to those stations.
Click to expand...
I have no idea how your post responds to mine. This is a solution to faster Ottawa Montreal service? This is a solution to service in Peterborough or Trois-Rivieres? I don't get it.
 
crs1026 said:
That’s the 492 Million dollar question…. Do they follow the old CP routing to Parc, maybe ending at Lucien L’Allier…. Or do they go around the connecting track at Mascouche and take the CN to Ballantyne?
Neither option is that appealing…. And the time involved makes the idea of 200 km/h in the middle a bit moot. The last ten miles into Quebec will be pretty slow also.
if that’s what this announcement is all about, it will be interesting to see how the money is stretched to deliver the requiring signalling and traffic control.
Just upgrading crossings will be expensive as many don’t even have gates, and the physical condition of the crissings is often poor.
And then there are the stretches if bolted rail….
All fixable, but the dollars only stretch so far.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Are you saying that because crossings with lights are required at speeds beyond 100mph?

What's wrong with speeds of 100mph where it's allowed and excess in places where it's allowed?

I guess passing sidings would be a requirement also.
 
Bordercollie said:
Are you saying that because crossings with lights are required at speeds beyond 100mph?

What's wrong with speeds of 100mph where it's allowed and excess in places where it's allowed?

I guess passing sidings would be a requirement also.
Click to expand...

Gates are required even below 100 if you are running passenger, yes.

All possible speed is desirable, but there’s a practical limit to how many speed up and slow down zones there can be. When the spacing of crossings is fairly close, as it is on the Trois Rivieres line, there’s not much point in trying to accelerate beyond the top speed over the crossings. Much fuel expended and only seconds gained.

I hope this announcement will be the start of more specific information about what’s planned.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
That’s the 492 Million dollar question…. Do they follow the old CP routing to Parc, maybe ending at Lucien L’Allier…. Or do they go around the connecting track at Mascouche and take the CN to Ballantyne?
Neither option is that appealing…. And the time involved makes the idea of 200 km/h in the middle a bit moot. The last ten miles into Quebec will be pretty slow also.
if that’s what this announcement is all about, it will be interesting to see how the money is stretched to deliver the requiring signalling and traffic control.
Just upgrading crossings will be expensive as many don’t even have gates, and the physical condition of the crissings is often poor.
And then there are the stretches if bolted rail….
All fixable, but the dollars only stretch so far.

- Paul
Click to expand...

That brings up an interesting point. Crossing gates aren't sufficient for 200 km/h service, you need full separation. If many of the crossings on the Trois-Rivières Sub don't have gates, then rather than paying to install them, use that cost as a down payment towards grade separation. I know that is significantly more expensive, but why waste money on building new gates, if in the long term VIA will want grade separation? Besides, looking at the Canadian Rail Atlas, there are a lot fewer level crossings along the Trois-Rivières Sub than many other stretches of the HFR route, and it is one of the longest, straightest sections. The track between Richmond (the Ottawa suburb, not Richmond Hill), and Smiths Falls would also be low hanging fruit for 200km/h service and that is also useful for trains between Ottawa and Kingston.
 
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