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VIA Rail

The obvious candidate for new service (as I'm sure everyone is aware here), is Edmonton-Calgary. If HFR gets built, I'd love to see that come first, especially as it might have a strong impact on the political constituencies that don't already support passenger rail in this country. Are there any existing documents outlining the kinds of investments needed to make, say, a 3x daily service practical?
 
The obvious candidate for new service (as I'm sure everyone is aware here), is Edmonton-Calgary. If HFR gets built, I'd love to see that come first, especially as it might have a strong impact on the political constituencies that don't already support passenger rail in this country. Are there any existing documents outlining the kinds of investments needed to make, say, a 3x daily service practical?
Most studies can be found here:

Biggest road block is how to access downtown Edmonton...
 
Most studies can be found here:

Biggest road block is how to access downtown Edmonton...
It seems like they have a serious LRT expansion plan.


Alongside the proposed Gondola, they could at least manage some kind of Suburban station I would think. It wouldn't be a one seat ride, but even then, most of the track is still in place to run downtown past the CP yards on the south side of the river. They'd have to build some kind of a tunnel or viaduct for the one section (see below) in addition to making sure the rail bridge is still sufficiently solid. The biggest hurdle I can see would be getting approval to run trains on those tracks.

1621711409341.png
 
The obvious candidate for new service (as I'm sure everyone is aware here), is Edmonton-Calgary. If HFR gets built, I'd love to see that come first, especially as it might have a strong impact on the political constituencies that don't already support passenger rail in this country. Are there any existing documents outlining the kinds of investments needed to make, say, a 3x daily service practical?
At one time you could fly into the downtown of Edmonton from Calgary on a Dash 8 that saw a number of flight more than 3 HSR trains each way.

Not sure how CP connects to CN in Edmonton these days as most lines were removed with no access to the downtown area for either RR.. Unless you tunnel to the downtown, its a long route to get to the VIA station that near the old airport.

You need a station for Red Deer, the Edmonton airport.

If you are going to do it right than a new ROW is needed to get 250 km speed as the land is mainly flat. Need a new bridge to cross the river.

The other option is doing a tram-train for street running.
 
^So long as rail passsenger runs at a loss, there will be a decision required about whether to offer a subsidy. This pushes the decision into a political forum and political decisions do not correlate precisely with ROI (or even some more abstract metric of overall benefit). It would be nice if there were formal criteria but no one should assume that a political process will slavishly apply these. There will be winners and losers.

I see a big difference in how the business case will evolve for lines radiating from a major urban hub that lies in the country's most densely populated area, irrespective of the population size of the end point.. Northern Ontario is a good example of that... when you have the prospect of attracting x riders a day to/from Niagara, plus y riders a day to/from Windsor, Kitchener, Belleville, etc it gives you the prospect of filling an entire train a day, even if the northern end point (let's take Kap as an example) may be small and the train is empty when it gets there.

Tourism creates ridership in a different manner than A to B transport . But even there, VIA might be better served to negotiate with tour operators that use the Ocean to get people to Matapedia, and then load them on a bus so they can have a structured, planned, far reaching tour of the region. The town of Gaspe isn't that big or full of attractions that one can build a major market hauling people there, unless they have the mobility to explore the broader area, and stop along the way. I have no insight into whether a one-seat ride to Gaspe by train would generate more tour business than a package tour operation from Matapedia, but the decision will be based on market and cost. Connecting Gaspe (or any other destination) just to have the line on a map is bad decisionmaking.

At the end of the day, a line with one train a day will seldom generate enough revenue to create appetite for investment, public or private. Realistically, most rail passenger in this country will be in corridors where there are enough riders to fill multiple trains a day. Population along the route will clearly correlate to this, but other factors (quality of existing roads, options for air, etc etc) will play also.

I would like to see far more transparency in these studies so we understand all this and debate from fact, but commercial interests may argue for VIA not showing its cards. The best we can do is use informed speculation, a questionning attitude, and sometimes a degree of skepticism. What matters most is for VIA to be able to broach and pursue ideas in an entrepreneurial way when they see an opportunity, without political blowback or bureaucratic obstruction. Their take may or not agree with our individual desires, it may be a "say it ain't so" proposition for any specific route opportunity.

- Paul

As much as I am a fan of branchline rail, you do make a good point about tour buses (as opposed to scheduled service which I don't know the status of in the area). Highway 132 pretty much follows the shoreline all the way around the peninsula and is very scenic. The rail line parallels the highway for much of the Baie des Chaleurs but doesn't go into the most 'touristy town' in the area, Perce, nor does it serve what to me is the most scenic part of the route north of Gaspe towards the St. Lawrence. I say this not knowing the passenger stats before the route was cancelled or how much of it was resident.
 
What work needs to be done to the track to bring it up to operating condition?

Once the new corridor fleet goes into service there should be some HEPII cars that can be used on that service.
 
Most studies can be found here:

Biggest road block is how to access downtown Edmonton...
Not to throw too much cold water on this idea, and though downtown termIni are a factor, I think the biggest block to passenger rail between Calgary & Edmonton is lack of passengers. Pre-covid there were maybe 8 bus trips a day and it was a fast and comfortable ride from downtown to downtown. Unless you can vastly increase passenger numbers through convenience, speed and price you MIGHT fill one train a day and that does not offer enough choice.
 
Biggest road block is how to access downtown Edmonton...
I've heard that just on the north side of the High Level Bridge is one location that has been considered, which is just into downtown, beside the Alberta Legislature and government offices, and next to a downtown LRT station. But I would think that bridge is too worn out to carry trains, and would need to be replaced.

I've also wondered what the condition of the downtown Calgary Train Station is, can't seem to find much on it.
 
What work needs to be done to the track to bring it up to operating condition?

Once the new corridor fleet goes into service there should be some HEPII cars that can be used on that service.

Just anecdotal observations from a couple of trips down there in the last few years (it's a great motorcycle trip), the ROW, particularly numerous bridges, needs work, which is apparently happening. The line appears to be operational west of New Carlisle.

 
With greyhound pulling out where could VIA pickup the slack? London? Guelph? Kitchener?
Most of the slack will be picked up by other bus services, like Orleans Express, Megabus, GO Transit or Ontario Northland. VIA's ability to expand services beyond their pre-Covid levels is constrained by the limited nature of its fleet, funding, mandate and infrastructure access...
 
^^^Looks nice! And from VIA's Website:


EDIT: Also from their website for those concerned about how it will transition to the rest of the train:
train_illustration@2x.jpg
 

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