VIA Rail

[tmlittle]

Given that we didn't see much out of the federal government in its fiscal update beyond some additional support to VIA to help cover the losses due to Covid-19. Should we look to the states in terms of the Amtrak State Supported rail lines model to try and get more service to areas that are presently underserved. The high-speed rail thing comes up every once and a while as a bit of a gimmick to try and win political points. If Ontario, for example, was willing to support Via Rail with an Ontario-based service could that be a viable option to provide the necessary funding for adequate service to communities like Sarnia, London, and Ottawa? I don't personally ever see Metrolinx expanding to the distance where London would be a viable option for them and I think that it would stretch them to thin. VIA presently has the services there but it needs assistance in funding for new trainsets and operational funds. Do you guys think that there could be enough political will in these areas to try and find a way to support VIA rail through direct funding from the province to help pay for the missing intercity connections and additional train runs? If you had to guess for VIA to become a viable option for people to take and stop driving or drive less to get around. What type of frequency or regularity would be needed to do so?

First you'd have to break the consensus even a lot of public transit fans seem to have, that regional cities don't deserve better transit.

 

[Urban Sky]

First you'd have to break the consensus even a lot of public transit fans seem to have, that regional cities don't deserve better transit.

I don’t recall much controversy - especially among “public transit fans” - about offering better transit to cities outside of this country’s largest metropolitan areas (and I wholeheartedly support such demands!), but I’m afraid that there is a misconception here if you seemingly regard intercity passenger rail as an integral part of transit rather than being only highly complementary to those intra-urban and intra-regional transport networks that actual “transit” is all about...

 

[micheal_can]

VIA is rebuilding their facilities in Montréal and Toronto to better deal with the Siemens equipment. What more do you want?

Dan

That....

The way some were talking, we shouldn't get new equipment that doesn't fit into the existing facilities.

 

[Urban Sky]

That....

The way some were talking, we shouldn't get new equipment that doesn't fit into the existing facilities.

Yawn...

I believe there is a less-than-subtle difference between upgrading your maintenance facilities at the same time as most of your fleet and buying cars which are incompatible with parts of the infrastructure on which they would be required to run.

 

[roger1818]

Yawn...

I believe there is a less-than-subtle difference between upgrading your maintenance facilities at the same time as most of your fleet and buying cars which are incompatible with parts of the infrastructure on which they would be required to run.

Exactly. There is a big difference between upgrading facilities for 32 new locomotives and 160 new coaches that will be heavily used on the busiest part of the network and a half dozen tourist coaches that can’t be used east of Portage la Prairie .

 

[smallspy]

That....

The way some were talking, we shouldn't get new equipment that doesn't fit into the existing facilities.

What makes you think that the Stadler cars wouldn't fit into the maintenance facilities? (Spoiler alert: they do.)

But......is it worth the purchase of a very limited fleet of equipment if the requirements to fit it on your network run into the hundreds of millions of dollars when there exists the possibility of buying equipment that fits without those changes? I don't happen to think that's prudent.

Dan

 

[micheal_can]

What makes you think that the Stadler cars wouldn't fit into the maintenance facilities? (Spoiler alert: they do.)

But......is it worth the purchase of a very limited fleet of equipment if the requirements to fit it on your network run into the hundreds of millions of dollars when there exists the possibility of buying equipment that fits without those changes? I don't happen to think that's prudent.

Dan

What if the cost of the new equipment, plus the new building is cheaper over the long run, than running equipment over 50 years old?

 

[kEiThZ]

What if the cost of the new equipment, plus the new building is cheaper over the long run, than running equipment over 50 years old?

That's not mathematically possible. At least over any reasonable timeframe.

 

[Urban Sky]

What if the cost of the new equipment, plus the new building is cheaper over the long run, than running equipment over 50 years old?

Nobody questions the need to replace 50+ year old equipment. Things only start to become questionable when people here start suggesting to chose a rolling stock design which requires expensive modifications to existing infrastructure over alternative designs which don’t.

You certainly can enjoy the cost savings and revenue gains associated with operating a modern fleet without causing the need for expensive modifications to the existing infrastructure...

 

[roger1818]

Nobody questions the need to replace 50+ year old equipment. Things only start to become questionable when people here start suggesting to chose a rolling stock design which requires expensive modifications to existing infrastructure over alternative designs which don’t.

You certainly can enjoy the cost savings and revenue gains associated with operating a modern fleet without necessitating expensive modifications to the existing infrastructure...

Especially when those modifications are to designated Heritage Railway Stations.

Union Station at 123 Main Street - Home of the Winnipeg Railway Museum - Heritage Winnipeg

Article by Laura McKay, on behalf of Heritage Winnipeg Corp. To follow up on this or any other articles on the blog, contact Heritage Winnipeg’s Executive Director. Thank you to Greg Agnew for his assistance with photos for this piece. VIA Rail Station (aka Winnipeg’s Union Station) Union...

heritagewinnipeg.com

 

[Bordercollie]

Nobody questions the need to replace 50+ year old equipment. Things only start to become questionable when people here start suggesting to chose a rolling stock design which requires expensive modifications to existing infrastructure over alternative designs which don’t.

You certainly can enjoy the cost savings and revenue gains associated with operating a modern fleet without causing the need for expensive modifications to the existing infrastructure...

Well if you look at how the TTC changed to the Rocket cars, they needed to upgrade the maintenance facilities to accommodate 6 car married trains. There was an gain in passenger volume of 20% and had operational efficiencies also. Without the upgrades to those facilities, they could not operate the new rolling stock.

Also with Toronto Street cars, Leslie barns was specifically designed to house the new street cars. So there are examples of this, it's just whether or not this needs to apply in VIA"s case is another story.

 

[Urban Sky]

Well if you look at how the TTC changed to the Rocket cars, they needed to upgrade the maintenance facilities to accommodate 6 car married trains. There was an gain in passenger volume of 20% and had operational efficiencies also. Without the upgrades to those facilities, they could not operate the new rolling stock.

Also with Toronto Street cars, Leslie barns was specifically designed to house the new street cars. So there are examples of this, it's just whether or not this needs to apply in VIA"s case is another story.

All the examples you quote are maintenance facilities (and thus in line with what VIA is doing), not stations which may only see a train a dozen of times per week (as is the case with Winnipeg’s Union Station)...

 

[roger1818]

The cars are taller than the Superliners which already have enough potential sizing headaches on VIA's network.

The cars don't fit into the trainshed at Winnipeg, and probably don't fit into the trainshed at Union - which complicated operations when the cars were deadheaded across on the Canadian for work.

Would Superliners fit in the trainsheds at both Winnipeg and Toronto's Union Stations, or is that what you mean by "already have enough potential sizing headaches on VIA's network?"

 

[Allandale25]

^ I think Superliners were used for the Chicago to Union trip before it was canceled? So if my memory is correct then I assume they would. I think I read earlier in this thread the Winnipeg shed is lower than Union's?

Update: I checked Wikipedia and it provided the picture below and this article.

 

[robmausser]

^ I think Superliners were used for the Chicago to Union trip before it was canceled? So if my memory is correct then I assume they would. I think I read earlier in this thread the Winnipeg shed is lower than Union's?

Update: I checked Wikipedia and it provided the picture below and this article.

View attachment 286685

I used to take the train from Sarnia to Kitchener and I would LOVE when it was the Amtrak train instead of the VIA one. The cars were simply better with a snack car and a dinner car with tables to sit at etc.