VIA Rail

[SaugeenJunction]

I haven't heard anything about that either, I thought that's just what the Transport Action people's pipe dream was. I'd heard rumblings about VIA buying the Brockville sub, double tracking the whole Ottawa-Brockville segment, paying CP to move their Smith Falls yard out of the way, and possibly building a parallel track from Brockville to Belleville (unclear if this was for VIA or CN). As VIA has since bought the Brockville Sub, That would be my first assumption. Not sure how the parallel track would work, though.

Transport Action was arguing against the Havelock alignment in their paper that I linked to earlier. Apparently they have "inside information" that we don't.

 

[crs1026]

I'm just devious enough to wonder if the Havelock Sub rumour is just an exercise to put some reality into what the stakeholders may be asking as VIA explores the "default" route. That could include what CP and CN want in exchange for sharing their rights of way, building more track, or moving to coproduction along the Kingston and Belleville Subs. I wonder too what position the First Nations at Deseronto might take on new initiatives across their land. Not to mention other land owners and municipalities who may be affected.

It always helps to have a Plan B in your pocket when you negotiate with the Plan A stakeholders.

- Paul

 

[rbt]

It always helps to have a Plan B in your pocket when you negotiate with the Plan A stakeholders.

It's often necessary with unique projects to get a decent price on Plan A since Plan B is what defines the maximum market price.

 

[Allandale25]

I was taking the GO train to Burlington today and noticed the RDCs parked in the Mimico yard. I several of the RDCs have been tagged with graffiti. Do anyone know what VIA Rail plans to do with these RDCs? It's sad to see them just sitting their collecting graffiti. I couldn't get a picture on the way by but here's a Google satellite image from July 2015.

 

[robmausser]

I was taking the GO train to Burlington today and noticed the RDCs parked in the Mimico yard. I several of the RDCs have been tagged with graffiti. Do anyone know what VIA Rail plans to do with these RDCs? It's sad to see them just sitting their collecting graffiti. I couldn't get a picture on the way by but here's a Google satellite image from July 2015.

http://blackburnnews.com/sarnia/sarnia-news/2015/06/17/via-rail-expanding-service-for-sarnia/

The service will be a mix of a traditional train between Sarnia and Toronto and two-car commuter trains running between Windsor, London and Sarnia."

 

[Allandale25]

http://blackburnnews.com/sarnia/sarnia-news/2015/06/17/via-rail-expanding-service-for-sarnia/

I saw that article back in July. There was just another article posted on January 8, 2016 with a bit more insight on what the current status is. Here's the key line: "Last June, Via Rail announced its service in Sarnia would increase to four trains daily, starting in 2016, contingent on securing greater use of Canadian National Railway-controlled track." (emphasis added). It sounds like they don't have an official start date for more service because they are still negotiating with CN Rail.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

http://blackburnnews.com/sarnia/sarnia-news/2015/06/17/via-rail-expanding-service-for-sarnia/

I saw that article back in July. There was just another article posted on January 8, 2016 with a bit more insight on what the current status is. Here's the key line: "Last June, Via Rail announced its service in Sarnia would increase to four trains daily, starting in 2016, contingent on securing greater use of Canadian National Railway-controlled track." (emphasis added). It sounds like they don't have an official start date for more service because they are still negotiating with CN Rail.

Interestingly, this service is planned to use VIA Rail RDC cars. This would represent the first time in a long time that VIA operated RDCs in Southern Ontario. Source: http://www.thesudburystar.com/2015/06/23/via-proposes-replacing-budd-cars-2

 

[dowlingm]

Interestingly, this service is planned to use VIA Rail RDC cars. This would represent the first time in a long time that VIA operated RDCs in Southern Ontario. Source: http://www.thesudburystar.com/2015/06/23/via-proposes-replacing-budd-cars-2

So this plan has been out in the world for a while then...

"I was shocked," says Gormick, who sat in on the meeting. "I can't conceive of this, knowing the costs behind it."

He says Desjardins-Siciliano described the plan twice last week, once to a private audience in St. Mary's and then at a public meeting Sarnia.

"He's promoting this fantasy shuttle service that would go back and forth between London and Sarnia and London and Windsor, using the Budd Cars," Gormick says.

VIA rail is an arm's-length Crown corporation, but Gormick says there is a political angle to the VIA president floating the idea at this time.

"We're talking about someone who works for the Conservatives and he's out doing some pre-campaigning for them," said Gormick. "This plan for southwestern Ontario conveniently wouldn't kick in until after the election."

Takes some chutzpah to take a swing at someone for being associated with the Tories when you were involved in the Del Mastro Choo Choo...

 

[MisterF]

So this plan has been out in the world for a while then...
Takes some chutzpah to take a swing at someone for being associated with the Tories when you were involved in the Del Mastro Choo Choo...

Considering Sarnia is smaller than Peterborough, it seems rather shortsighted to dismiss either one as a choo choo or a fantasy. RDC service to smaller Ontario and Quebec cities (Sherbrooke and Trois Rivieres come to mind) could make a lot of sense.

 

[dowlingm]

Considering Sarnia is smaller than Peterborough, it seems rather shortsighted to dismiss either one as a choo choo or a fantasy. RDC service to smaller Ontario and Quebec cities (Sherbrooke and Trois Rivieres come to mind) could make a lot of sense.

Sarnia has an operating railway line at passenger standard. The barrier to entry is lower. Peterborough not only required serious remediation of the Havelock Sub (not to mention refreshing the weed choked Don Branch) and some capital improvements in the area of Agincourt Yard but in some scenarios a $50m (plus?) flyunder from the north side of the CP midtown alignment to the south side Don Branch track.

Edit: I would be happy to discuss a rational, national strategy to decide which alignments would be returned to passenger service. A political play by a Harper favourite ain't it.

 

[robmausser]

Sarnia has an operating railway line at passenger standard. The barrier to entry is lower.

Also, Sarnia does not have a single bus service to it. Your options currently are train, or $500 plane from Pearson. Try and book a greyhound, you can't.

So, that means that there is little competition for service.

Peterborough already has a GO bus and Greyhound service.

 

[crs1026]

Does VIA even own those semi-abandoned RDC's any more? They were once said to be sold, although the alleged purchaser has left them there so long that VIA may have grounds to reposess. I would be surprised if they are worth fixing.

- Paul

 

[MisterF]

Sarnia has an operating railway line at passenger standard. The barrier to entry is lower. Peterborough not only required serious remediation of the Havelock Sub (not to mention refreshing the weed choked Don Branch) and some capital improvements in the area of Agincourt Yard but in some scenarios a $50m (plus?) flyunder from the north side of the CP midtown alignment to the south side Don Branch track.

Edit: I would be happy to discuss a rational, national strategy to decide which alignments would be returned to passenger service. A political play by a Harper favourite ain't it.

Oh I'm not saying that it wouldn't be expensive, and I'd argue that the existing track isn't even the best route. But there's nothing irrational about bringing back passenger trains to a city like Peterborough.

Also, Sarnia does not have a single bus service to it. Your options currently are train, or $500 plane from Pearson. Try and book a greyhound, you can't.

So, that means that there is little competition for service.

Peterborough already has a GO bus and Greyhound service.

If there are lots of buses that's an argument in favour of bringing back rail, not against it. It shows that there's demand. I had no idea that there were no buses to Sarnia. That tells me that while the costs of bringing service back to Peterborough would no doubt be higher, the ridership would likely be higher too. Highway traffic bears that out too - the 115 to Peterborough is slightly busier than the 402 to Sarnia. Sarnia has trains because it's easier to provide service, not because it's a busier route. It's low hanging fruit.

 

[smallspy]

Does VIA even own those semi-abandoned RDC's any more? They were once said to be sold, although the alleged purchaser has left them there so long that VIA may have grounds to reposess. I would be surprised if they are worth fixing.

- Paul

5 of the units at TMC are owned by VIA, and were used until the heavily-rebuilt ones from IRSI entered service a couple of years ago. In theory they could be made to be put back into service fairly quickly, although if they can find the money VIA would much rather rebuild them to the same standard as the others.

The other 5 units, however.....are in a state of limbo. If you ask VIA's legal department, they don't own them, but they can't tell you who does, either (it used to be either Farmrail or IRSI). To be honest, those other 5 units have been sitting at TMC since the late 1980s, and may now be too far gone to try saving.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Allandale25]

5 of the units at TMC are owned by VIA, and were used until the heavily-rebuilt ones from IRSI entered service a couple of years ago. In theory they could be made to be put back into service fairly quickly, although if they can find the money VIA would much rather rebuild them to the same standard as the others.

The other 5 units, however.....are in a state of limbo. If you ask VIA's legal department, they don't own them, but they can't tell you who does, either (it used to be either Farmrail or IRSI). To be honest, those other 5 units have been sitting at TMC since the late 1980s, and may now be too far gone to try saving.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Thanks Dan. That's helpful info. So it total there are 10 RDCs sitting outside at the TMC on the west side of the building?