VIA Rail

[Allandale25]

CN imposes axle-count restriction on VIA’s Venture trainsets (corrected) - Trains

MONTREAL — Apparently triggered by one or more incidents in which a VIA Rail Canada Venture trainset failed to activate highway crossing warning devices, Canadian National is now requiring that all of VIA’s Venture-equipped trainsets operate with 32 axles. The edict came late Friday, at the...

www.trains.com

 

[Northern Light]

CN imposes axle-count restriction on VIA’s Venture trainsets (corrected) - Trains

MONTREAL — Apparently triggered by one or more incidents in which a VIA Rail Canada Venture trainset failed to activate highway crossing warning devices, Canadian National is now requiring that all of VIA’s Venture-equipped trainsets operate with 32 axles. The edict came late Friday, at the...

www.trains.com

To elaborate on the above, the requirement is now for 32 axles per train. Whereas the current set up for the Ventures is 24 axles.

This means VIA has to alter the make up of the sets and add, typically, 2 older cars into the mix to meet the count.

***

Not clear to me in the piece above is why a detector can't work properly with 24 axles passing over it, and why 8 more would be statistically likely to work any better.

It sounds more like a fault w/the detector than w/the number of axles on the train consist.

But I will await thoughts from our expert crew @smallspy and @crs1026 as well as from @Urban Sky on the implications for VIA if it has to sustain this new arrangement.

 

[Bordercollie]

To elaborate on the above, the requirement is now for 32 axles per train. Whereas the current set up for the Ventures is 24 axles.

This means VIA has to alter the make up of the sets and add, typically, 2 older cars into the mix to meet the count.

***

Not clear to me in the piece above is why a detector can't work properly with 24 axles passing over it, and why 8 more would be statistically likely to work any better.

It sounds more like a fault w/the detector than w/the number of axles on the train consist.

But I will await thoughts from our expert crew @smallspy and @crs1026 as well as from @Urban Sky on the implications for VIA if it has to sustain this new arrangement.

The need to wye the train defeats the push pull consist and will also be restricted to slower speeds.

As more sets are delivered, is it not possible to canablize those to add 2 additional car's? I guess for cab cars the couplers would be an issue.

 

[Bojaxs]

If the "intermediate/ temporary" options are to either;

1) lash up a HEP or legacy car to every Siemen's trainset. If that is even physically possible.
2) Add 2 Venture coaches to every Charger trainset, and risk cannibalising service/ frequency

I choose the latter.

The Charger locomotives have 4400HP, so adding two extra coaches to the trainsets shouldn't be too hard on the locos, correct?

 

[Urban Sky]

If the options are to either;

1) lash up a HEP or legacy car to every Siemen's trainset. If that is even physically possible.
2) Add 2 Venture coaches to every Charger trainset, and cannabalise service/ frequency

I choose the latter.

If the options are to either;

1) lash up a HEP or legacy car to every Siemen's trainset. If that is even physically possible.
2) Add 2 Venture coaches to every Charger trainset, and cannabalise service/ frequency
3) Accept the speed restrictions while equipping a work around (“shunt enhancer”) across the Siemens fleet

I choose the latter.

If the delays are anything similar to those reported by Tom Box for Saturday, the fallout seems to be very limited:

Re: New restriction on Venture equipments travelling on CN territory

groups.io

The Charger locomotives have 4400HP, so adding to extra coaches to the trainsets shouldn't be too hard on the locos, correct?

One of the official configurations was a seven-car version, a single locomotive should be sufficient to haul such a long train…

 

[cplchanb]

Just a big fail on VIA and CN cooperation. They had 2 years to work out these issues during testing and still these fundamental problems come up. How hard would it be to recalibrate the Corridor crossings to work better and is this axle count a temporary thing until it's fixed ? Then again how did via operate with 4 LRC coaches that are much lighter than the ventures with no issues??!

 

[cplchanb]

The need to wye the train defeats the push pull consist and will also be restricted to slower speeds.

As more sets are delivered, is it not possible to canablize those to add 2 additional car's? I guess for cab cars the couplers would be an issue.

I knew it.... it was only a matter of time before via starts to do their dumb mix and match consist habit again. Though this time is because of CN rail incompetence

 

[Bojaxs]

Then again how did via operate with 4 LRC coaches that are much lighter than the ventures with no issues??!

@Urban Sky pointed out to me on the previous page, it has to do with the wheel design of the older, legacy fleet. Probably more inline with the freight train wheels.

 

[Bordercollie]

@Urban Sky pointed out to me on the previous page, it has to do with the wheel design of the older, legacy fleet. Probably more inline with the freight train wheels.

The venture sets don't have break shoes so it's apparently easier for the wheels to get dirty since there is nothing to clean them.

 

[bearcat]

If the options are to either;

1) lash up a HEP or legacy car to every Siemen's trainset. If that is even physically possible.
2) Add 2 Venture coaches to every Charger trainset, and cannabalise service/ frequency
3) Accept the speed restrictions while equipping a work around (“shunt enhancer”) across the Siemens fleet

I choose the latter.

If the delays are anything similar to those reported by Tom Box for Saturday, the fallout seems to be very limited:
View attachment 604186

Re: New restriction on Venture equipments travelling on CN territory

groups.io

One of the official configurations was a seven-car version, a single locomotive should be sufficient to haul such a long train…

Those under 45 minute delays were the typical VIA rail delays I experienced every time when I was in university in Windsor and travelled to Toronto most weekends back in mid 2010's. Are these delays even outside the usual VIA delays? I don't have the expectation of being right on time with VIA, so a short 30 min delay is expected from my past experience. I wouldn't even notice these.

 

[Urban Sky]

Those under 45 minute delays were the typical VIA rail delays I experienced every time when I was in university in Windsor and travelled to Toronto most weekends back in mid 2010's. Are these delays even outside the usual VIA delays? I don't have the expectation of being right on time with VIA, so a short 30 min delay is expected from my past experience. I wouldn't even notice these.

I would assume that the travel time penalty of these strings of 45 mph restrictions at protected level crossings (unprotected crossings thankfully can’t malfunction) is much less than you would think because it merely delays the point at which VIA get’s inevitably stuck behind the preceding freight train…

 

[lenaitch]

Just a big fail on VIA and CN cooperation. They had 2 years to work out these issues during testing and still these fundamental problems come up. How hard would it be to recalibrate the Corridor crossings to work better and is this axle count a temporary thing until it's fixed ? Then again how did via operate with 4 LRC coaches that are much lighter than the ventures with no issues??!

It seems you didn't read the previous couple of pages.

 

[lenaitch]

Will this be an issue for Ontario Northland on the portion between Washago and North Bay?

If I understand the information correctly (big 'if'), the (potential) safety issue is more of a concern with newer, more sophisticated detection system that adjust for train speed. Without knowing the actual equipment installed on the Newmarket Sub it's difficult to say, but I'm guessing it would have older, less sophisticated systems.

 

[dowlingm]

Given VIA’s crewing situation I don’t know that it’s fair to say that they can simply take a hit of 3/4 hr per segment especially when the next segment starts 3/4 hour in the hole.

Hopefully VIA have spent the weekend marshalling some longer Venture trainsets, reactivating that last Renaissance consist, hell maybe even those two Panoramas they won’t fix up can still turn a wheel on the back of a venture set. At least the rail photographers would be happy.

 

[nfitz]

Seems to me, is all they have to do is tack a couple of empty freight cars at the back end of the train.