VIA Rail

[Urban Sky]

To say something positive about rail in this country, I struggle to name a jurisdiction anywhere on this planet which invests as massively and strategically into expanding its public transit networks as Ontario does in the GTHA…

 

[micheal_can]

To say something positive about rail in this country, I struggle to name a jurisdiction which invests as massively and continuously into public transit as Ontario does in the GTHA…

Montreal is doing a good job with their REM as well.

If operating rail across provincial boundaries wasn't so challenging, I would not be lamenting over the loss of Via.

 

[Urban Sky]

Montreal is doing a good job with their REM as well.

Montreal’s investment into transit infrastructure is the REM - and unlike Toronto, there is nothing else in the pipeline, as Montreal lacks any strategic vision, as evidenced by sacrificing the Mont-Royal tunnel and Canada’s only electrified (25kV, like the TGV and Shinkansen!) for a stupid light metro project…

If operating rail across provincial boundaries wasn't so challenging, I would not be lamenting over the loss of Via.

The hold-up is not VIA, it’s the federal government and (especially) TC. I can’t wait for the Corridor to be handed over to private investors, which won’t have to put up with TC attempting to micromanage or veto everything…

 

[Northern Light]

To say something positive about rail in this country, I struggle to name a jurisdiction anywhere on this planet which invests as massively and strategically into expanding its public transit networks as Ontario does in the GTHA…

Its certainly a positive and among the better numbers globally, but I think this would merit favourable comparison?

Grand Paris Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[micheal_can]

Montreal’s investment into transit infrastructure is the REM - and unlike Toronto, there is nothing else in the pipeline, as Montreal lacks any strategic vision, as evidenced by sacrificing the Mont-Royal tunnel and Canada’s only electrified (25kV, like the TGV and Shinkansen!) for a stupid light metro project…

I was showing it as a second place as we have little going on.

The hold-up is not VIA, it’s the federal government and (especially) TC. I can’t wait for the Corridor to be handed over to private investors, which won’t have to put up with TC attempting to micromanage or veto everything…

The TC will still have its hands in the control. A private entity won't do much better.

 

[cplchanb]

To say something positive about rail in this country, I struggle to name a jurisdiction anywhere on this planet which invests as massively and strategically into expanding its public transit networks as Ontario does in the GTHA…

While it's great that we have been trying to catch up this last decade the unfortunate thing is that it has been catch up. What they are trying to do now is something that should've been done 30 years ago when you're comparing population density and city size. Still a long long way to go

 

[Urban Sky]

Its certainly a positive and among the better numbers globally, but I think this would merit favourable comparison?

Grand Paris Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The striking thing about the GTHA is how these expansions almost dwarf the existing network:

• Extending 2 of the existing 3 Subway Lines: SSE and YNSE
• Building the first Light Metro line: Ontario Line
• Building the first three (!) LRT lines: Eglinton (incl. Western Extension), Finch, Hurontario
• More than doubling the train volume of the Commuter Rail network while electrifying most of it: RER/ONxpress

All of that is already funded and happening simultaneously…

While it's great that we have been trying to catch up this last decade the unfortunate thing is that it has been catch up. What they are trying to do now is something that should've been done 30 years ago when you're comparing population density and city size. Still a long long way to go

I was describing the present and the future, not the last few decades (where only the construction of the GO Subdivision to Oshawa, the UP Express and the TYSSE seem to be worth noting)…

 

[micheal_can]

The striking thing about Toronto is how these expansions almost dwarf the existing network:

• Extending 2 of the existing 3 Subway Lines: SSE and YNSE
• Building the first Light Metro line: Ontario Line
• Building the first three (!) LRT lines: Eglinton (incl. Western Extension), Finch, Hurontario
• More than doubling the train volume of the Commuter Rail network and electrifying most of it: RER/ONxpress

All of that is already funded and happening simultaneously…


I was describing the present and the future, not the nearer past (where only the UP Express and TYSSE are worth noting)…

The sad reality is the amount of transit needed is more than double of what has been funded and is under construction.

To bring it back to Via, Between T-O-M, Via could run once an hour, every hour, every day and price it at its current pricing and the demand is likely still higher than that. Canadians have accepted crappy public transportation because there is no end of crappy public transportation in sight.

 

[dowlingm]

I have no faith that better service can be expected from an Ontario-Quebec corridor joint venture than the Feds currently provide. Any such venture is going to be predicated on agreement by both provinces to any change or increase requiring subsidy and on one side or another an excuse to reject or delay or water down that improvement will be all too easy to find.

The example I have where supply has been plainly running behind demand for decades is the Dublin-Belfast passenger railway service, which has locomotives which have to be 50pc owned by each side and where the northern side has suffered from dysfunctional government for decades. I won’t say there have been not been improvements, but nowhere near what could have been done.

Instead, I would pick up VIA HQ and relocate it to Ottawa, so that management can be closer to Transport Canada and to federal MPs. To my mind, Ottawa has been the pivot around which the YDS era growth occurred, and with some capital investment into passing track, Ottawa and Fallowfield platforms, >100mph on VIA owned exurban track, and negotiating higher throughput at Smiths Falls, Coteau and De Beaujeu, the Corridor money machine could really start dinging

 

[Urban Sky]

I have no faith that better service can be expected from an Ontario-Quebec corridor joint venture than the Feds currently provide. Any such venture is going to be predicated on agreement by both provinces to any change or increase requiring subsidy and on one side or another an excuse to reject or delay or water down that improvement will be all too easy to find.

The example I have where supply has been plainly running behind demand for decades is the Dublin-Belfast passenger railway service, which has locomotives which have to be 50pc owned by each side and where the northern side has suffered from dysfunctional government for decades. I won’t say there have been not been improvements, but nowhere near what could have been done.

Instead, I would pick up VIA HQ and relocate it to Ottawa, so that management can be closer to Transport Canada and to federal MPs. To my mind, Ottawa has been the pivot around which the YDS era growth occurred, and with some capital investment into passing track, Ottawa and Fallowfield platforms, >100mph on VIA owned exurban track, and negotiating higher throughput at Smiths Falls, Coteau and De Beaujeu, the Corridor money machine could really start dinging

If your solution for fixing VIA is to increase the chokehold hyper risk-adverse paper pushers in Ottawa exercise on it even further, what exactly is the problem you are trying to fix?

 

[dowlingm]

If your solution for fixing VIA is to increase the chokehold hyper risk-adverse paper pushers in Ottawa exercise on it even further, what exactly is the problem you are trying to fix?

the same paper pushers probably drive to Montreal and Toronto rather than trust the train service. How many other significantly sized countries locate their federally owned and funded passenger railway agency away from the national capital?

 

[Urban Sky]

the same paper pushers probably drive to Montreal and Toronto rather than trust the train service.

That would probably be (if true, which I severely doubt) quite a waste of taxpayer money, given that employees can work while sitting in a train, but not while driving a car.

How many other significantly sized countries locate their federally owned and funded passenger railway agency away from the national capital?

Nederlandse Spoorwegen is headquartered in Utrecht and Deutsche Bundesbahn was headquartered in Frankfurt until it was amalgated with the Deutsche Reichsbahn into Deutsche Bahn AG (headquartered in Berlin). The choice of city to locate your HQ is mostly a historic one and I’m not aware of any relocations of European railroads’ HQs.

Anyways, I can assure you that on a list of all the problems VIA suffers, your perceived lack of federal supervision doesn’t even make it on the first two pages, as the problem is rather the inverse: the hyper risk-aversion of TC’s paperpushers which rather ask the same question half a dozen time than to allow any idea or initiative to happen. I’ve worked at VIA’s HQ six years and everyone there can tell you their own stories.

And for what it’s worth: if whoever assumes operations for HxR decides to locate their HQ away from Montreal, it will be to Toronto and certainly not closer to TC’s paperpushers which might get wrong ideas that they can micromanage them just like they did with VIA…