VIA Rail - OC Transpo collision

[dunkalunk]

I would wager that the outcome is that the TSB will find this crossing safe and that OC transpo would make it operating policy to stop at all level railway crossings in the future. I can't see that any of the 6 railway crossings in Barrhaven would be grade separated until the corridor is upgraded for electrified operation, which at this rate would be at least 20 years.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Yet there's no reason to think that such a policy would have prevented this accident. The train was visible, the lights were flashing, and the gate was down. None of these things prompted the driver to stop. Yet a policy would have? But I don't disagree that this might happen simply so that they are seen to be doing something. Like closing the barn window after the horse has walked out the door.

 

[Markster]

I would wager that the outcome is that the TSB will find this crossing safe and that OC transpo would make it operating policy to stop at all level railway crossings in the future.

Yet there's no reason to think that such a policy would have prevented this accident. The train was visible, the lights were flashing, and the gate was down. None of these things prompted the driver to stop. Yet a policy would have?

Indeed, the crossing was as safe as a level crossing can be, and that didn't stop the accident. Pretty much the only thing they could do to make it safer would be to add retractable bollards, so that after ignoring the lights and crossing arms, the bus hits the bollard instead of the train. I don't see this as a real solution. Accidents simply happen sometimes.

 

[rbt]

Indeed, the crossing was as safe as a level crossing can be, and that didn't stop the accident. Pretty much the only thing they could do to make it safer would be to add retractable bollards, so that after ignoring the lights and crossing arms, the bus hits the bollard instead of the train. I don't see this as a real solution. Accidents simply happen sometimes.

Dead-man switch 1 to 2 minutes away from the railway crossing on the bus. If driver fails to hit the button indicating they are alert, the engine cuts out. This would be cost effective.

A more costly solution might be some form of speed control on the bus which caps the speed at 0 when a train is crossing. This would be similar to the moving block signalling that train systems have.

Neither is necessary today.

The most likely solution is some variation of Google's driving software/sensor kit becoming standard on buses over the next 10 to 20 years.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Dead-man switch 1 to 2 minutes away from the railway crossing on the bus. If driver fails to hit the button indicating they are alert, the engine cuts out. This would be cost effective.

A more costly solution might be some form of speed control on the bus which caps the speed at 0 when a train is crossing. This would be similar to the moving block signalling that train systems have.

Neither is necessary today.

The most likely solution is some variation of Google's driving software/sensor kit becoming standard on buses over the next 10 to 20 years.

Except that it looks like the brakes on the bus failed. Cutting the engine, letting it coast, downshifting, and then hitting retractable bollards seems to be the only solution for buses. But what about other vehicles? Trucks and cars, with the same situation, failed brakes?

 

[MisterF]

A dead man switch seems like overkill to prevent a once in a blue moon tragedy. We might as well all wrap ourselves in bubble wrap and never leave home.

BTW rbt, is that Google thing you mentioned Google's self driving car technology? I actually see that kind of technology as being the future of driving. Take human error right out of the equation. I think driving will be vastly different and safer in 50 years.

 

[rbt]

Except that it looks like the brakes on the bus failed. Cutting the engine, letting it coast, downshifting, and then hitting retractable bollards seems to be the only solution for buses. But what about other vehicles? Trucks and cars, with the same situation, failed brakes?

Ahh, I wasn't aware the brakes failed. The last time I read it appeared the driver hit the brakes too late.

You can still go to FRA standards where I got the dead-man switch. A brake test is necessary for every change in direction. What kind of testing does Ottawa do before the bus leaves the yard in the morning?

I'm not saying it's necessary or even wanted; but that trains and aircraft have had rules to minimize these kinds of problems for decades.

 

[BurlOak]

Ahh, I wasn't aware the brakes failed. The last time I read it appeared the driver hit the brakes too late.

You can still go to FRA standards where I got the dead-man switch. A brake test is necessary for every change in direction. What kind of testing does Ottawa do before the bus leaves the yard in the morning?

I'm not saying it's necessary or even wanted; but that trains and aircraft have had rules to minimize these kinds of problems for decades.

The brakes failing is just an internet rumor. I do not think anyone of importance has claimed this. If this is the first stop the bus had to make on its route, the brakes failing may be a plausible reason. I think we need more information.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Now they are saying that the driver was diabetic and just came back from medical leave. And I heard his wife say on the radio that he was getting over a cold. My own father, (granted a lot, lot older) had that combination last fall, and fell asleep at the wheel and drove into a light standard.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The brakes failing is just an internet rumor. I do not think anyone of importance has claimed this.

Buses have air brakes, same as trucks. If the brakes fail, the system is designed to fully apply the calipers. Thus, failed brakes = no moving bus.

 

[smallspy]

Buses have air brakes, same as trucks. If the brakes fail, the system is designed to fully apply the calipers. Thus, failed brakes = no moving bus.

It is way more complex than that. It is quite easy to get the air brakes on a train to fail if you know what you are doing, and not difficult even if you don't. There are even failure modes where the brakes will not work. And the same goes for buses and trucks.

Now, I'm not for a second suggesting that brake failure was involved - but you can't simply rule it out either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.