Unofficial Proposals For Toronto Highway Expansions

[EnviroTO]

Some cities, like Paris, have numerous freeways yet have also not suffered that fate.

Central Paris doesn't have freeways. The Perimeter road creates a circle 10km or so in diameter void of freeways which encompasses an area about the size of old Toronto.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Or perhaps Freeways do not crisscross Toronto due to Toronto residents being culturally different? Perhaps culturally different enough that this fate could not have occurred, even if the freeways were rammed through by outside forces?

Some cities, like Paris, have numerous freeways yet have also not suffered that fate.

I like Jacobs. I'm not convinced she sufficiently defined causation though she did a pretty good job with correlation. For example, it may be easier to build freeways in areas which have begun economic decline. It was certainly easy to flatten much of the Toronto chinese slum area to build City Hall in the 60's.

Yeah, that's the rub. Are places better off because they didn't have freeways rammed through them, or are the better off places ones where building freeways are economically (never mind politically) infeasible?

 

[nfitz]

Central Paris doesn't have freeways.

It may not have motorways, but those grade-separated one-way express roads along the edge of the Siene are close enough to freeways. Removing them completely would improve access to the river, and make it a lot quieter. I thought there was some talk of doing that.

 

[CityPlaceN1]

It was certainly easy to flatten much of the Toronto chinese slum area to build City Hall in the 60's.

And put highways like the Gardiner in. City Hall was just before people started questioning new development at all cost.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Gardiner ran through industrial lands where nobody lived, it involved demolishing only a couple of homes on the edge of a neighbourhood. Same with the DVP, it ran through a valley nobody used. Once metro started building highways that needed large scale residential demolition, the protests flared up.

Nobody really complained about city hall because the city had owned all the land since the 1930's, and the new city hall had been on the books for so long it was seen as inevitable. The people living there had no real say due to their poverty as well, but the people in the annex did.

The Toronto highways that never got built would have resulted in a loop of around 5x8km, fairly large by most American standards where most city loops are lucky to be large than 2x2km.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Gardiner ran through industrial lands where nobody lived, it involved demolishing only a couple of homes on the edge of a neighbourhood. Same with the DVP, it ran through a valley nobody used. Once metro started building highways that needed large scale residential demolition, the protests flared up.

Nobody really complained about city hall because the city had owned all the land since the 1930's, and the new city hall had been on the books for so long it was seen as inevitable. The people living there had no real say due to their poverty as well, but the people in the annex did.

The Toronto highways that never got built would have resulted in a loop of around 5x8km, fairly large by most American standards where most city loops are lucky to be large than 2x2km.

These couple of houses in the Jameson & Lake Shore Blvd. area?

 

[TOareaFan]

Gardiner ran through industrial lands where nobody lived, it involved demolishing only a couple of homes on the edge of a neighbourhood. Same with the DVP, it ran through a valley nobody used. Once metro started building highways that needed large scale residential demolition, the protests flared up.

Nobody really complained about city hall because the city had owned all the land since the 1930's, and the new city hall had been on the books for so long it was seen as inevitable. The people living there had no real say due to their poverty as well, but the people in the annex did.

The Toronto highways that never got built would have resulted in a loop of around 5x8km, fairly large by most American standards where most city loops are lucky to be large than 2x2km.

So, we have now established that your opinion only matters if you are monied.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't, i'm saying that in our political reality (especially in the 1960's) they don't, for better or for worse. hard to buy lawn signs, buttons, and organize meetings for your grassroots group if you can barely afford to put food on the table. its an unfortunate political reality.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't, i'm saying that in our political reality (especially in the 1960's) they don't, for better or for worse. hard to buy lawn signs, buttons, and organize meetings for your grassroots group if you can barely afford to put food on the table. its an unfortunate political reality.

That is (IMO) actually getting worse.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That is (IMO) actually getting worse.

How is anything innsert said bad? He's just saying that its easier for affluent people to be politically active. That's a pretty hard fact to deny. I don't think any of us wish it were this way, but that's how things are.

 

[TOareaFan]

How is anything innsert said bad? He's just saying that its easier for affluent people to be politically active. That's a pretty hard fact to deny. I don't think any of us wish it were this way, but that's how things are.

It is a weird question you ask because I think you agree with me that it is bad that poorer people have less say....that's all I said. The quote you show is me saying that I think it is actually getting worse these days.

 

[adma]

So, we have now established that your opinion only matters if you are monied.

Actually, contrary to "monied", the Annex bottomed out in the 50s/60s--many of the then-unfashionable late Victorian mansions had become white elephant rooming houses, or redlined for apartment redevelopment along St George/Spadina/Walmer in particular. Not all that different from what was happening in Parkdale around that same period.

However, one thing that the Annex had which Parkdale didn't was a "cultural class", thanks to its proximity to U of T, among other things--many of those inhabiting said old hulks and rooming houses happened to be students, professors, academics, intelligentsia, etc. Monied or not, they were the "cultural elites"--and that's what gave the Stop-The-Spadina movement its "push"...

 

[Johnny Au]

Actually, contrary to "monied", the Annex bottomed out in the 50s/60s--many of the then-unfashionable late Victorian mansions had become white elephant rooming houses, or redlined for apartment redevelopment along St George/Spadina/Walmer in particular. Not all that different from what was happening in Parkdale around that same period.

However, one thing that the Annex had which Parkdale didn't was a "cultural class", thanks to its proximity to U of T, among other things--many of those inhabiting said old hulks and rooming houses happened to be students, professors, academics, intelligentsia, etc. Monied or not, they were the "cultural elites"--and that's what gave the Stop-The-Spadina movement its "push"...

Some of the mansions in the Annex were converted to frat houses.

 

[CityPlaceN1]

Lake Shoe and Jameson looked very nice back in the day.

 

[Translude15]

Keep in mind the Spadina Expressway was slated to run through Forest Hill as well. At the corner of St. Clair-Bathurst also lies St. Michael's College School, an institution with both monied and cultural elites.

Some of the mansions in the Annex were converted to frat houses.

These were converted to frat houses after U of T destroyed many of the original Victorian mansions along St. George in and around Robarts.