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University Avenue - Toronto's Grand Avenue?

Ladies Mile said:
There are plenty of Victorian suburbs and urban neighborhoods in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Richmond and Louisville, KY. The city that actually has a very Toronto feel to its older residential architecture is Columbus, OH, which has preserved a large amount of homes directly adjacent to downtown. The architecture is less vertical and more "colonial" in feel, reflecting German rather than British building practices, and I wound up appreciating its pleasant, human scale and relative austerity in comparison to New York's dour acres of brownstones and bristling mansions.
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Oddly enough, I'm originally from Columbus. You're referring to German Village and Victorian Village, and to some extent, Olde Town East. Olde Town East in particular (which would probably compare to our Annex or Jarvis St. in its heyday) has a claim to be called very early suburban, but today no one would call any of them suburbs.

The difference between Toronto and Columbus is size and survival rates. All three of these areas in Columbus suffered from interstates coming through; Old Town East was effectively split in two by I-71, and Victorian Village by the construction of I-670. Two of them went through significant periods of decline before rebounding--Olde Town East was effectively a slum and Victorian Village not much better . In contrast, Toronto has not lost any significant neighbourhood to construction of expressways, and as a result those areas that have declined stayed largely intact as neighbourhoods and the decline was less steep. I suspect the stories may be similar in many of the other US cities.
 
I believe the area I was in was German Village, which struck me as a very civilized and small-scale environment for all that downtown was blocks away.

I see your point about the expressways although I wonder if cutting off German Village from downtown did not perhaps prevent its obliteration in the post-war period. The blocks directly north looked well-swamped by grandiose plans, many of which looked as if they were never realized (the Depression seemed to play a part).
 
k10ery said:
Close the northbound lanes to traffic from Queen to Queen's Park and you could make the best and best-used park Toronto has ever seen. Necessary first step in this process: Janette Sadik-Khan for Mayor!
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Remember that the original "Queen's Park" included the University grounds to the west. If Queen's Park Crescent West was eliminated (in an alternate non-Fordian universe), there's the dream park we're looking for!

1862:

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1899:

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^^ the issue with Queen's Park is that it has no recreational or artistic facilities, and there is not any water, which makes it less interesting.
Or maybe the city can expand Moss Park to the east till Parliament street. That stretch is almost dead anyway. Might as well be turned into a large green space. Or extend it northward to join Dundas Street, That's a terrible looking area as well. Hardly anything is worth saving.
 
Note also that as late as 1892, the majority of the ROW was still referred to as College Avenue (which was like a linear park), with the residential street to the east refered to as University, lined by houses typical for the Ward at that time (like Mary Pickford's house on the site of Sick Kid's):

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Ladies Mile said:
I believe the area I was in was German Village, which struck me as a very civilized and small-scale environment for all that downtown was blocks away.

I see your point about the expressways although I wonder if cutting off German Village from downtown did not perhaps prevent its obliteration in the post-war period. The blocks directly north looked well-swamped by grandiose plans, many of which looked as if they were never realized (the Depression seemed to play a part).
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German Village is the revitalized area with the longest standing in Columbus. I suspect it was because of the German connection--there were a significant number of German clubs and businesses (I'm dreaming of a Schmidt's cream puff right now) that stayed in the area even as surrounding areas got dicey. The Short North area, on the other hand, went through a precipitous decline. Whole portions of the Italian Village area (particularly the less-prosperous 'Flytown' area) were bulldozed by the interstate. More survived on the Near East side, but growing up the Near East was synonymous with the highest crime rate in the city.

In Columbus, industry flanked the downtown area to the south and to the north. Growth tended to be northwards--the south side of Downtown was comparatively under-developed, although it had some lovely hotels and theatres (only the Southern is left of that).

I know this is getting away from the thread topic, but these examples are interesting if only to point out what might well have happened to Toronto if the Spadina Expressway had gone through. It would have bisected the Annex in a way similar to what happened when the interstates cut through in Columbus.
 
Y'know, back to the "no emotional attachment" aspect of a kkgg7's "newcomer's" relationship to Toronto...

Look at it this way. As I see it, for the truly, passionately urban-minded among us to have, inherently, "no emotional attachment* to anyplace--even one that is not our home, or is not otherwise obviously prepossessing in any way--is a form of urban sociopathy.
 
thecharioteer said:
Remember that the original "Queen's Park" included the University grounds to the west. If Queen's Park Crescent West was eliminated (in an alternate non-Fordian universe), there's the dream park we're looking for!
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Good point. I've always loved the plan to eliminate (or bury) QPCW and bring back Taddle Creek. So it probably makes more sense to eliminate the southbound lanes of University to Queen St., and put the park on the west side.

This new park would be about 2 km long and 30 m wide (including the existing median park). That makes 6 hectares, or about 50% more than Bryant Park. But in a somewhat different shape.

Edit: Believe it or not, I only just realized I am proposing a Ramblas for Toronto. But much nicer - let's face it, Las Ramblas is pretty grotty.
 
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kkgg7 said:
^^ the issue with Queen's Park is that it has no recreational or artistic facilities, and there is not any water, which makes it less interesting.
Or maybe the city can expand Moss Park to the east till Parliament street. That stretch is almost dead anyway. Might as well be turned into a large green space. Or extend it northward to join Dundas Street, That's a terrible looking area as well. Hardly anything is worth saving.
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Actually, come to think of it, his grotesquely relentless search-and-kill antagonism to anything that moves, locally, reminds me of the aliens in Mars Attacks!
 
kkgg7 said:
In High Park, we have some nice trees, all in a small area. But outside it, there is not much interesting to see any more. It seems it was not meticulously planned in the first place, just plant some trees and call it a day. There can be more cherry trees, as well as other various kind of blooms that make it park look good even off-season (some trees do bloom in the winter), and preferable accompanied by man-made additions such as fountains, statues, monuments, boulevards and pavillions. City planners just didn't think it is worthwhile to take the time and hire the right person to plan for a great urban park. Instead, 80% of High Park is disorganized with wide grass and randomly presented in its natural wide state. Most first time visitors I know went with high expectation and returned with mild disappointment.
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Unlike Central Park, which was inserted into the street grid in the 1850s ( the Commissioners' Plan of 1811 omitted to include parkland for Manhattan - oops! ), High Park was a privately owned estate, with two ravines running through it, purchased by John Howard in 1836, transferred to the City in 1873 and subsequently expanded. A third of it is in a natural state, as befits a city with a defining ravine system. Yet it also contains landscaped ornamental gardens and other such frippery.
 
^^ Urban Shocker, I respect you as a knowledgeable member here who knows a lot about Toronto. However, despite our differences, please comment on my opinions, no matter how stupid you think they are, instead of on me personally. I never expressed hatred toward anyone here just because I don't agree with them, please don't degenerate into another adma (whose comments I completely ignore now) who repeated engages in personal attacks and insults. Where I came from, whether I support North Korea, or how often I have sex, have absolutely nothing with the topics on this forum and should not be discussed either. That's the common courtesy we should have toward others.
 
Relax, I haven't expressed hatred for you - actually, I think you're rather fun. Adm's quite fun, too, and I run into him now and then around town at various events - at book launches, or when he's foraging for berries to eat in public places, for instance. You two might hit it off if you ever met. As for the opinions that we all, variously and mostly anonymously, express, who among us doesn't speculate as to the genesis of those ideas, and to the unique perspectives on the world that they represent, especially when they're as delightfully eccentric as yours? Speculation as to whether you're actually the chubby little boy running North Korea, or are merely visiting the earthlings, is an attempt to solve that mystery.
 
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