Even years ago Vaughan was pushing Mlinx to get Line 1 up to Vaughan Mills. They want this done relatively soon, and in my view it's within reason they'll bundle aspects of this grandeur as an 11th hour amendment to YNSE.
The train storage will already be near 16th. Actually seems doubly likely seeing who's in power at the Prov level: a party with big support in YR that's vaguely pro-subway but yet hasn't shown just WTH their grand subway vision is. Food for thought.
Reasons like this I think an alternative that offers what YR wants (an inverted U subway through their territory)
Just have a transfer at Finch or Steeles to another subway scaled more appropriately, either owned by the Prov, private consortium, or York Region. A 60s platform-platform transfer is a minor inconvenience that only marginally affects mode choice. Still an automated high capacity subway line, but nowhere near as crazy as shady bozos calling for almost 25km of deep tunneling and 150m long stations across the outer suburbs. Win-win.
But nothing in YR's transit plans show that. In fact it's the exact opposite - they're banking on Yonge going well beyond Hwy 7 to Major Mack then possibly looping over to meet U/S. It's in their updated master plan. Even years ago Vaughan was pushing Mlinx to get Line 1 up to Vaughan Mills. They want this done relatively soon, and in my view it's within reason they'll bundle aspects of this grandeur as an 11th hour amendment to YNSE. The train storage will already be near 16th. Actually seems doubly likely seeing who's in power at the Prov level: a party with big support in YR that's vaguely pro-subway but yet hasn't shown just WTH their grand subway vision is. Food for thought.
Reasons like this I think an alternative that offers what YR wants (an inverted U subway through their territory), but one less insane. Just have a transfer at Finch or Steeles to another subway scaled more appropriately, either owned by the Prov, private consortium, or York Region. A 60s platform-platform transfer is a minor inconvenience that only marginally affects mode choice. Still an automated high capacity subway line, but nowhere near as crazy as shady bozos calling for almost 25km of deep tunneling and 150m long stations across the outer suburbs. Win-win.
They're literally building the Yonge BRT now which should be encouraging to those who fear they'll try get YNSE further north than currently planned. It doesn't preclude a subway, I guess, but it sure doesn't help their case either. I mean, if they're so gung ho, they can convert to LRT in 5 years, I guess.
The bus bunching is an issue - I think I've said here there have been times where I'm around Yonge/Steeles and just standing there are doing a 360, I've seen a dozen or more buses between the north and south horizons. It made sense, at the time, to hold off on the BRT. Hindsight is 20/20 but 2007, man, those were heady days! If it gets approved in the next couple of years, therefore opening - yeesh - around 2030 - one can debate whether it was worth not building the BRT buuuuut I also suspect (per my first point) that if the BRT had been built from Steeles to 7 it would be even easier for some to argue they should just convert to LRT and take the subway to Steeles.
(And we agree that tunneling north of VMC is nuts; LRT would work perfectly nice there; I'm assuming by "elevated" we mean "at grade"?. It would have been cheaper than tunneling north of Steeles but pretty useless in terms of promoting an "urban streetscape." There's at least some potential along Jane to the north...)
I want to ask whether Yonge Street will be widened to 6 lanes between Langstaff Road and Clark Avenue regardless of the subway being built? I’m not saying that this is a replacement for the subway, but HOV/bus lanes for local service.
I can see an extension to Vaughan Mills built. I can see the first phase of YNSE going to the RH station. More than that, not unless YRT pays for most of it.
South of 7 on Yonge there were no plans for lrt and barely plans for brt so it's a bit historically inaccurate to say there was.
When I mentioned 'planning for bus enhancements' south of 7 on Yonge they'd merely be basic improvements. Were supposed to be in place more or less by now considering they were contingent on the subway extension's delay, which it is. Gripes on existing rush hour service through this stretch can fall largely at the feet of York Region, and likely Scarpiti.
Why mention LRT since again no plan for one, vaughan has already made clear they don't want one by asking Mlinx for a subway, and YR's transit plan solidifies that the region wants lots of subways. Not 2-car subways, not narrow 4-car trains - 6-car conventional Toronto rolling stock.
My argument is this inverted U plan of theirs may not be so bad...just so long as it's not as an extension of Line 1. Plan one that's a bit more forward-thinking, grounded in reality, not grossly oversized, and doesn't belong to another city.
This argument has always had some sway - why should Toronto pay for a subway to York Region? I'm not advocating for a subway to Vaughan Mills but the argument becomes meaningless if the province uploads the subway, like they say they will. Bye bye to all the "but it's OUR subway!" arguments, right or wrong.
this is 100%, entirely and completely false. Barely plans for BRT?? The first phase of Viva, before Highway 7, was supposed to be Steeles to 7, on Yonge, and Toronto was planning to do its own bus lanes from Steeles to Finch. And Viva was designed to be upgraded to LRT so, wrong, wrong and wrong.
For the record - here's Wikipedia noting Move2020 was announced on June 15, 2007.
Here's the minutes of York Region Council for June 21, 2007. Note Item 112, the Yonge rapidway expropriations, and specifically Meeting No. 5 of the York Region Rapid Transit Co., which took place on June 14.
Resolution adopted by the Council of the City of Vaughan at its meeting on June 11, 2007 in support of bus rapid transit on Yonge Street and the Yonge Street Subway Extension to the Richmond Hill (Langstaff) Centre. Received. (A copy of the Vaughan Council Resolution dated June 11, 2007 is attached to this report.)
Anyone who cares can read it all but feel free to explain how Vaughan can "Continue to support...approved Bus Rapid Transit" when you just said there were "barely plans" for it?!
So, on June 21, Council changed course:
1. The Recommendations of the Rapid Transit Public/Private Partnership Steering Committee be received.
2. Staff be directed to commence an Environmental Assessment and preliminary engineering for the Yonge Street subway extension to Richmond Hill Centre.
3. Staff be directed to work with the City of Toronto and TTC to develop an integrated and coordinated approach for the timely extension of the Subway.
4. Staff be authorized to retain necessary resources to undertake this work.
5. An interim budget of $3,000,000 through the end of 2007 be allocated from capital reserves to undertake this work.
6. Staff make every effort to recover these funds from province and federal partners.
7. Staff report back on progress on the work plan in the fall 2007, including work completed, future work initiatives and budget implications.
8. Staff continue the practice of taking land through the development review process at no cost in the Yonge Street corridor.
9. The Regional Chair and Clerk be authorized to execute the Provincial and Federal Funding Agreements to secure the Viva Phase 2 � Stage One monies.
10. Staff report back in the fall as to the timing and priority for all of the York Region rapid transit projects announced as part of the Move Ontario 2020 funding.
Meh, by this time next year it will be Ontario rolling stock and the legs will be cut out from what's left of your argument.
And how would this BRT-turn-LRT have gotten through Thornhill, both technically and realistically (since no pols supported it). Exactly, it wouldn't have.
lol oh I knew it all along and called you out for this years ago. Hardcore Ford supporter.
I'm not advocating for a subway to Vaughan Mills but the argument becomes meaningless if the province uploads the subway, like they say they will.
You're borderline delusional.
It was an intrinsic part of Viva. They DID approve it. They finished the EA. They were - as I just demonstrated - literally set to start the construction work when the subway plan was announced. So it was supported by the majority of pols in Markham and Vaughan ad York Region, QED.
Did you even READ the stuff I posted? Here is Vaughan council EXPLICITLY endorsing the BRT, even with the subway announcement:
Doug thus far has only proposed uploading the capital component of the subway (as in who gets to benefit from the depreciation lineitem in their accounting books).
That would mean TTC still absorbs the costs of maintenance and operations subsidies (if any).