Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[hw621]

I'm amused how much it annoys 416ers every time he speaks (maybe because many are confused why the "Mayor of Markham" cares about the "Subway to Richmond Hill") and, personally, I think it would make more sense for him to stand alongside the mayors of Vaughan and RH, and maybe even the Regional Chair. Still, he doing what he's elected by his constituents to do - promoting Markham's economic development and such - so I don't much see the point getting hot and bothered either way.

Please note that he is also the Chair of the York Region Transit Corporation. So it is appropriate for him to make transit related statements in that capacity.

 

[raptor]

He is not just the Mayor of Markham, but also the chair of the YRRTC (York Region Rapid Transit Corporation)

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Please note that he is also the Chair of the York Region Transit Corporation. So it is appropriate for him to make transit related statements in that capacity.

Good point. I still think there's value in him standing alongside his fellow mayors to show a united front, but I don't question his right to be out there (and, really, Markham probably has more waiting on the subway than Vaughan or Richmond Hill.)

 

[Rapparee]

Absent Metrolinx being given the authority (and composition) to coordinate both a long term regional transportation and road network, land use planning, and property monetization where regional politicians would have some role to play in approving funding for regional transportation,, he can stick up for the inhabitants of York Region and Markham all he wants, I guess. I still don't see why anyone in Toronto would or should pay attention him, any more than people living in Markham and York Region would or should pay attention to John Tory's view about what YRT should or shouldn't be doing.

As to deriving amusement from "416ers" being "annoyed", that seems a rather parochial assumption. If that actually causes amusement, I suggest that there are many more productive things one could do with their time. My concern was jurisdictional, not psychological.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I was being a bit jesty about the "annoyed" part but there is a lot of harrumphing about this suburban hubris.

Why should people in Toronto pay attention? Firstly, because I don't think there's a darned bit of difference between Willowdale and Thornhill, but for a random line someone drew, and there are 10s of thousands of 416 residents who stand to benefit from the extension. Which is to say, if you live just south of Steeles and then take your car to Finch Station and get on the subway, you are "stealing the seat" of someone waiting at Eglinton just as much as a future RH Centre resident who could one day get on the subway at Highway 7. It's little consolation that one guy is chipping in a measly 20% of his fare via property taxes and other isn't, I say.

John Tory may not care about the ins and outs of how YRT is run but the fact is thousands of people, every day, take YRT and transfer to TTC (and vice versa) to get to work, to go see the Maple Leafs and a million other things (and there are many more who avoid YRT to transfer to TTC too). Any politician who professes to care about transit without understanding that riders don't care if the bus is blue, white or purple so long as it gets them where they need to go, isn't doing their job as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about people as transit riders first, not taxpayers. And if Tory (for example) doesn't care how thousands upon thousands of 905 residents get to their jobs in Toronto, he isn't doing his job, notwithstanding that the schedule of the #5 bus in Vaughan is beyond his jurisdiction. Same goes for a Vaughan or Markham politician who only cares about his citizens only up to the point where they cross a border. It's still one trip.

For what it's worth, Civic Action John Tory 100% got this. Whether Mayor John Tory does, I don't know for sure.

At the end of the day, no matter what happens to Metrolinx (though I believe they should evolve to precisely what you describe), the municipalities have a vested interest in working together and so even if John Tory doesn't actually need Markham's darned support for the DRL, it's easier to take Markham's "dream" of a subway more seriously when they acknowledge the larger network issues (for which I'd argue Toronto City Council is pretty much entirely to blame, but I'll leave that there for now).

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

As a 416-er, I am not amused that transit priorities are being dished out in terms of which political seats are battleground seats between the Tories and Grits.

At this point, I am all for Metrolinx being given the authority to holistically plan a regional network. I have more faith in them planning capital investment priorities than Queens Park does.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Metrolinx with all planning responsibilities is just the MTGTHA (Ministry of Transportation Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area)?

 

[nfitz]

(maybe because many are confused why the "Mayor of Markham" cares about the "Subway to Richmond Hill")

I think most are aware that Richmond Hill is only north of Highway 7 - leaving only the proposed Line 1 terminus just north of the Langstaff GO in Richmond Hill. Three of the five proposed stations are in, or partially in, Markham, while a fourth (Richmond Hill Centre) is very close to the Markham border with Richmond Hill. The removed Royal Orchard station would also have been partially in Markham - which is still being discussed in recent YRT presentations.

 

[micheal_can]

Lets say this extension opened today. What good and bad things would transit riders face tomorrow?

 

[Leo_Chan]

Lets say this extension opened today. What good and bad things would transit riders face tomorrow?

Yonge Line at capacity before getting to Sheppard-Yonge.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Lets say this extension opened today. What good and bad things would transit riders face tomorrow?

I would not be able to get on the subway at Eglinton.

I hope Bixi Bike expansion continues northward. It might become my option during rush hour as a consequence.

Others in my neighbourhood who are not fit 20-something males might just choose to drive instead though.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I think most are aware that Richmond Hill is only north of Highway 7 - leaving only the proposed Line 1 terminus just north of the Langstaff GO in Richmond Hill.

That's probably true of most people on this board. I don't think it's remotely true for most Toronto residents (and maybe most York Region residents, for all I know). I think "Richmond Hill" conjures up images of the Oak Ridges Moraine and mega-mansions, which isn't accurate terrain in this case. I think most people would be surprised to hear the "subway to Richmond Hill" runs mostly through North York, Markham and Vaughan and people who rarely go north of Bloor would probably be surprised at how North York Centre has exploded and continued to march north.

But everything else you lay out is totally correct...though I'm surprised Royal Orchard is still kicking around as an idea. Looking at the presentation without the notes of whoever gave it, the fact it's only the one station there suggests to me that they were just showing it as an example of a radius study, and perhaps even explaining how it got discounted. I'd be surprised if they're still advocating for it, but who knows...

I would not be able to get on the subway at Eglinton.
I hope Bixi Bike expansion continues northward. It might become my option during rush hour as a consequence.
Others in my neighbourhood who are not fit 20-something males might just choose to drive instead though.

-York Region has been looking into some sort of bikeshare operation of its own. Obviously it should somehow dovetail with Bixi eventually but the way the municipalities operate in silos, seems doubtful.

-I get the concerns about not getting on the subway at Eglinton - I've seen it - but, to answer the question, I don't think it would make a significant difference if the subway was open today. It would just make it easier for the people already taking your seat to access public transit, without driving or busing to Finch Station. In the meantime, there's a proposal for 2,000 condo units (7028 Yonge) kicking around in the BUILDINGS forum. It won't get approved as-is but the point is that if it did, those 3,000+ new residents would be taking your seat, regardless of whether the subway terminates at Finch, Steeles or 7. I just think you have to accept north-of-Finch growth and ridership as a given you can't stop. None of this is to dismiss the need for the DRL - on the contrary - I just think that withholding the extension at this point is the equivalent of sticking your finger in a dike.

I would agree that while I think the difference would be minimal today, that it would undoubtedly kick open the floodgates for development, especially at the Highway 7 Urban Growth Centre so it would make a big difference tomorrow.

 

[44 North]

So much focus on Yonge being at capacity, yet people forget Line 2 is too. They're both f*cked, been that way for years. Yet we have some brainiacs who've never ridden on public transit saying, gee I think there's some room. So annoying. Shorten both lines they'll still be full.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

So much focus on Yonge being at capacity, yet people forget Line 2 is too. They're both f*cked, been that way for years. Yet we have some brainiacs who've never ridden on public transit saying, gee I think there's some room. So annoying. Shorten both lines they'll still be full.

Ironically, that kind of makes the same point I was making The issue isn't where the lines terminate, it's how few alternatives (ie relief lines) were built in the first place, creating a systemic flaw and a system-wide crunch point that needs fixing. If you stop a line short of where the population node is, you won't relieve crowding, just create inefficiencies. (Imagine if they closed Finch Station for some reason. It wouldn't open seats on the subway, just force people find their way to NYC and Sheppard. You know everyone hates the shuttle buses they run between stations when the subway is down? That's basically everyday standard service from Steeles to Finch now.)

It sounds like the DRL (at least the FULL DRL, to Sheppard) will go a long way to mitigating it but I don't know if we can ever fully dig our way out of the built-in flaw. In an ideal word you could do things like tunnel a Yonge Express line that runs parallel and only stops at Finch/Sheppard/Eglinton/St Clair/Bloor or something - but it will literally never happen because they didn't think about it back then.

 

[hw621]

^is? Or will be?