Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Johnny Au said:
Ford could easily amalgamate Toronto with Durham, York, Peel, and Halton when he snaps his fingers...
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Ford could also break up Toronto, and believe it or not that would actually save money, and make the city (or Cities in this case) more efficient. However that would require admitting the Mike Harris was wrong (which he was and everybody knew it).
 
Johnny Au said:
Ford could easily amalgamate Toronto with Durham, York, Peel, and Halton when he snaps his fingers...
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If any changes were to be made, he seems likely to implement a strong mayor system.

A party system in Toronto probably would not help a future mayoral run for Michael.

Finally, merging the GTA into a single government would wipe out most of the power at Queens Park. Few at provincial level would go with him on it.
 
rbt said:
If any changes were to be made, he seems likely to implement a strong mayor system.

A party system in Toronto probably would not help a future mayoral run for Michael.

Finally, merging the GTA into a single government would wipe out most of the power at Queens Park. Few at provincial level would go with him on it.
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In other countries, cities are themselves states or provinces.
 
W. K. Lis said:
In other countries, cities are themselves states or provinces.
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Yeah, but the Ontario Government isn't going to split itself in half.

It's also rare for states/provinces to have the same types of responsibilities as Canadian provinces. It's unusual, for example, for a city-state to have total control over an education curriculum or the health-care system. They might build out hospitals but they do not, for example, select which treatments are government funded and which ones are not.

There are a few country-level cities which do (Singapore, Hong Kong, ...) but typically it's a federal level responsibility.

Canadian provinces have responsibilities closer to that of a federal government than is typical for an administrative regional government. Our federal government actually quite thin focusing mostly on external relations.
 
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rbt said:
If any changes were to be made, he seems likely to implement a strong mayor system.

A party system in Toronto probably would not help a future mayoral run for Michael.

Finally, merging the GTA into a single government would wipe out most of the power at Queens Park. Few at provincial level would go with him on it.
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How would that happen? It's not like being separated from the province.
 
11th said:
How would that happen? It's not like being separated from the province.
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Authority on the books wouldn't change but the political weight a popular elected Mayor of the GTA could throw around would be massive (likely more than the official opposition); certainly large enough to directly influence provincial level politics (which we've already seen a bit with both Ford and Miller).
 
Amare said:
I understand that regional transit is important, but the TTC's mandate is not to serve municipalities which are far flung from Toronto. There's a reason why GO Transit exists, and anything beyond RHC shouldn't be looked to as the TTC's responsibility. It doesn't matter how much Richmond Hill grows in the next century, Toronto will grow just as quickly and we already have plenty of transit issues to deal with in the city. As to who should care if York Region pays for the subway extension, that's easy: Torontonians should care. We're seeing that episode play out with the TYSSE as we speak, since Torontonians are heavily subsidizing York Region riders even though they paid the capital costs.

There is no need to split the Yonge-University line. There are tons of cities in the world which are capable of operating lines which are much longer than it; the only issue with the Yonge-University line is that the TTC is incapable of operating any line which covers a long distance (be it subway line, streetcar line, or bus route).
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For most people the city does not end just at the Toronto borders, we are one region. Companies need people from every section of the GTA to find people, and getting people to and from work around the GTA should be pushed daily. That means the TTC should expand to where service can easily be provided. Extending Yonge line North to Richmond hill, what 3-4 KM out of Toronto proper is hardly a far flung place. It is a part of the region where every lot is being turned into condo's. There is a reason Finch station is packed, people from all over bus in. Realistically that money won't come from Toronto to build it, it will come from the province, york region and the feds.

Look at the mess around the airport, its the 2nd largest job concentration in this country. And public transportation is a mess in that area, so everyone drives. The issue there is that region is split over 4 cities, and when you are outside of Toronto by 2 KM (despite being the 2nd largest job zone in the country) the TTC is horrible. So if you are at the Bell office 1KM from the Toronto border you are adding in a long commute, so most people will just drive. That same issue happens in Vaaughn, some drive, some Go train if they are downtown Toronto, some bus to Finch and TTC, but it really isn't clean for anyone.

Experts want it build, demand says it should be build, growing part of the region. Not sure why people get all protectionist, its not like the Toronto budget will pay for it.
 
zmonkey said:
For most people the city does not end just at the Toronto borders, we are one region. Companies need people from every section of the GTA to find people, and getting people to and from work around the GTA should be pushed daily. That means the TTC should expand to where service can easily be provided. Extending Yonge line North to Richmond hill, what 3-4 KM out of Toronto proper is hardly a far flung place. It is a part of the region where every lot is being turned into condo's. There is a reason Finch station is packed, people from all over bus in. Realistically that money won't come from Toronto to build it, it will come from the province, york region and the feds.

Look at the mess around the airport, its the 2nd largest job concentration in this country. And public transportation is a mess in that area, so everyone drives. The issue there is that region is split over 4 cities, and when you are outside of Toronto by 2 KM (despite being the 2nd largest job zone in the country) the TTC is horrible. So if you are at the Bell office 1KM from the Toronto border you are adding in a long commute, so most people will just drive. That same issue happens in Vaaughn, some drive, some Go train if they are downtown Toronto, some bus to Finch and TTC, but it really isn't clean for anyone.

Experts want it build, demand says it should be build, growing part of the region. Not sure why people get all protectionist, its not like the Toronto budget will pay for it.
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There are concerns over the capacity of the Yonge line. Most of us agree that YN should have a subway, but it should be sensibly built -- RLN first or concurrently built, or at the very least Platform Edge Doors. We don't want people to die. Also, there's the concern over maintenance and who will pay for that. If York region isn't going to pay some sort of subsidy tax to help with TTC maintenance or won't allow higher fares to be placed on their commuters, then Toronto citizens feel betrayed. I can't really blame them for either of these things.
 
Streety McCarface said:
There are concerns over the capacity of the Yonge line. Most of us agree that YN should have a subway, but it should be sensibly built -- RLN first or concurrently built, or at the very least Platform Edge Doors. We don't want people to die. Also, there's the concern over maintenance and who will pay for that. If York region isn't going to pay some sort of subsidy tax to help with TTC maintenance or won't allow higher fares to be placed on their commuters, then Toronto citizens feel betrayed. I can't really blame them for either of these things.
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Therefore uploading capital and maintenance costs of the subway to the Province is actually a sensible thing...
 
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hw621 said:
Therefore uploading capital and maintenance costs of the subway to the Province is actually a sensible thing...
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Sure - if you enjoy trains every 20 to 30 minutes late at night.

Not sure how letting the current fools at Metrolinx - let alone future ones - anywhere near the TTC!
 
nfitz said:
Sure - if you enjoy trains every 20 to 30 minutes late at night.

Not sure how letting the current fools at Metrolinx - let alone future ones - anywhere near the TTC!
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Well I did say just capital and maintenance costs, not operations. Not sure how stellar TTC operation is, but so be it.

At the end of the day, transit is about creating connection, however, the current municipal funding structure is creating division instead.
 
hw621 said:
Well I did say just capital and maintenance costs, not operations.
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Worth noting that Ford has only promised to upload the asset value and a portion of the maintenance cost ($160M/year is somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3rd). Ford's campaign offered to fund tunnels or trains or yards; not both.

Line 2 over the next decade needs new rolling stock and signals replacement. Those 2 special projects ($200M/year) are in addition to the normal daily/weekly/monthly/annual maintenance. $160M/year isn't even close.

Worst case is Toronto can no longer write off the depreciation (which is why the province wants it) but we continue to contribute hundreds of millions per year for subway maintenance out of debt.

If the province takes the capital completely, both the good parts and the expenses, and lets TTC manage operations as they see fit (including scheduling) then that's a pretty good deal for the city.

In fact, it's such a good deal that McGuinty didn't upload subway capital as promised after finding out what it costs to maintain the thing; despite billions from the feds and province, a huge chunk of the cities debt is due to subway SOGR funding.
 
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zmonkey said:
For most people the city does not end just at the Toronto borders, we are one region. Companies need people from every section of the GTA to find people, and getting people to and from work around the GTA should be pushed daily. That means the TTC should expand to where service can easily be provided. Extending Yonge line North to Richmond hill, what 3-4 KM out of Toronto proper is hardly a far flung place. It is a part of the region where every lot is being turned into condo's. There is a reason Finch station is packed, people from all over bus in. Realistically that money won't come from Toronto to build it, it will come from the province, york region and the feds.

Look at the mess around the airport, its the 2nd largest job concentration in this country. And public transportation is a mess in that area, so everyone drives. The issue there is that region is split over 4 cities, and when you are outside of Toronto by 2 KM (despite being the 2nd largest job zone in the country) the TTC is horrible. So if you are at the Bell office 1KM from the Toronto border you are adding in a long commute, so most people will just drive. That same issue happens in Vaaughn, some drive, some Go train if they are downtown Toronto, some bus to Finch and TTC, but it really isn't clean for anyone.

Experts want it build, demand says it should be build, growing part of the region. Not sure why people get all protectionist, its not like the Toronto budget will pay for it.
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I never said extending the Yonge line North to Richmond Hill is a bad idea. The idea only gets delusional and silly when people start suggesting to extend the subway past Richmond Hill Centre and Vaughan Corporate Metropolis Downtown Centre Station. There is absolutely no need for that kind of non-sense, and that's where GO Transit's mandate would come into play. It's not the TTC's responsibility (as much as we need regional transit) to provide transit 10km-20km beyond Toronto's borders.

If people that far out dont like it that's fine, they should call up Metrolinx.
 
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