Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[muller877]

A cheap way to quickly get the YNE built is to expedite the DRL build all the way to Richmond Hill:


If DRL reaches Oriole GO stations, then:
-- South of Sheppard: DRL could be a tunneled subway
-- North of Sheppard: DRL could use the Richmond Hill GO corridor
-- No GO stations lost (all Richmond Hill GO stations are at Sheppard or north of)
-- DRL replaces Richmond Hill GO train service.

I wonder if the RH RER line went via the Leaside Spur would it siphon off sufficient demand from the Yonge Line so there is capacity for the Yonge extension. And of course the TTC buses in the east all stopped right beside the RER line.

I don't trust the current TTC/Metrolinx studies on this (cough cough KIRBY). And the older analysis assumed no fare integration, no new stops and there was an additional 2,000 users at peak time from the Yonge Extension. Will a revamped RH RER likewise remove 2,000 users from the Yonge Line?

 

[drum118]

With all due respect, I understand what you're trying to say, but many drivers that park at Finch Station don't use Yonge Street to get there. To distill future or even existing numbers based on Bus Ridership and vehicles along Yonge Proper doesn't give the full picture. The catchment at Finch Station extends to Bathurst and Bayview vehicles that come south and use Hilda, Willodale and Finch to get there along with Yonge Street. Even despite this, not all vehicles on Yonge or any other corridor are all destined for Finch Station either.

For day one numbers, there isn't a large area that you can based numbers on and becomes a guessing game as how many new riders would use the new line that day or week.

As for car numbers, its a guessing game unless you run every plate through the system to find out where they live. How many of those car currently using the Finch lots is unknown by me and I chose the high number. Some could be for local business since it could be cheaper to use TTC lots than other places.

Over time for future number, you can arrive at X numbers assuming a lot of things.

Other than World on Yonge, nothing has been built between Steeles and RHC to add numbers to ridership numbers based on old data. You can add new data for hwy 7 and north Yonge.

The number I used for opening day is based on the time frame that the line was supposed to open and is out of date since we have no idea when the line will open today. At the same time, how long does it take to get development off the ground to meet future demands??

There is more development north of RHC today than south to the point it reinforce the need to take the line north of RHC when the line gets built. There is a lot more development on Hwy 7 than before, with a good chunk using the GO Stouffville Line than the Yonge Line.

In fact I did a 30 year outlook for both Hurontario and Yonge and it was only around 25 that Yonge ridership pass Hurontario given the fact it has less area to build density. The last time I did ridership numbers some years ago, Hurontario was still beating Yonge Numbers 2:1 and it only getting an LRT. The Yonge number was based on 8% growth yearly.

The Town of Richmond Hill wants a tunnel for transit through the downtown area, since Yonge will not handle transit like it should and will be a lot slower than it is today due to increase in traffic.

 

[rbt]

I wonder if the RH RER line went via the Leaside Spur would it siphon off sufficient demand from the Yonge Line so there is capacity for the Yonge extension. And of course the TTC buses in the east all stopped right beside the RER line.

The 3 main factors are frequency, price, and time (to their final destination).

Leaside Spur solves most of RH performance issues but you would need to run more than 2 trains per hour at a TTC equivalent price to get the masses onto it.

5 to 7 minute frequencies would likely be sufficient though.

 

[Disparishun]

If York Region was willing to foot the entire cost of any extension beyond RHC, how much further would make sense? Anything much further than there is mostly single family homes.

The extension should be to close the loop from RHC to VMC. North of 7, we already have RT underway, and there is no limit to the ecosystem that can be built in and around that as development and traffic justifies. Planning in southern YR should be more than just endless extension of the edges of the existing grid.

 

[Amare]

^Oh for goodness sake, there is no need to extend the subway beyond RHC and VMC centre. There comes a point in time where a subway line is just too long for it's own good, and certain destinations would be better served via other transport options (ie: the GO train). There seriously needs to be an impenetrable wall constructed at VMC and RHC (if ever built) to prevent ridiculous fantasies of extending the subway closer and closer to both Caledon and Barrie. Enough is enough.

 

[Rainforest]

RHC will be the best place to terminate Yonge subway and switch to another mode. Its happens to be the location where multiple lines converge together. The Bala Sub tracks come close enough to Yonge street (they divert east when going further north). The Hwy 7 VIVA service and the future 407 Transitway converge as well.

The next 4 km of Yonge north of Hwy 7 are pretty urban and lined with highrises, but extending the subway there would result in disconnect between the two major corridors: Yonge North and Hwy 7. Riders arriving from north of Major Mac and wishing to transfer to the Hwy 7 service, would have to transfer twice: first to the subway, then to VIVA.

 

[Streety McCarface]

^Oh for goodness sake, there is no need to extend the subway beyond RHC and VMC centre. There comes a point in time where a subway line is just too long for it's own good, and certain destinations would be better served via other transport options (ie: the GO train). There seriously needs to be an impenetrable wall constructed at VMC and RHC (if ever built) to prevent ridiculous fantasies of extending the subway closer and closer to both Caledon and Barrie. Enough is enough.

One never knows what will happen in Richmond Hill within the next century. If the density and ridership supports it, there should be nothing wrong with extending the subway further. At this point, maybe the TTC should really consider splitting the Yonge and University-Spadina lines; they're both already getting fairly long. Besides, if York Region is paying for everything, who cares?

 

[Amare]

One never knows what will happen in Richmond Hill within the next century. If the density and ridership supports it, there should be nothing wrong with extending the subway further. At this point, maybe the TTC should really consider splitting the Yonge and University-Spadina lines; they're both already getting fairly long. Besides, if York Region is paying for everything, who cares?

I understand that regional transit is important, but the TTC's mandate is not to serve municipalities which are far flung from Toronto. There's a reason why GO Transit exists, and anything beyond RHC shouldn't be looked to as the TTC's responsibility. It doesn't matter how much Richmond Hill grows in the next century, Toronto will grow just as quickly and we already have plenty of transit issues to deal with in the city. As to who should care if York Region pays for the subway extension, that's easy: Torontonians should care. We're seeing that episode play out with the TYSSE as we speak, since Torontonians are heavily subsidizing York Region riders even though they paid the capital costs.

There is no need to split the Yonge-University line. There are tons of cities in the world which are capable of operating lines which are much longer than it; the only issue with the Yonge-University line is that the TTC is incapable of operating any line which covers a long distance (be it subway line, streetcar line, or bus route).

 

[JSF-1]

Why is it the TTC's job to be the Subway for York Region? At what point do the surrounding Municipalities built their own high order transit? It seems Peele (or Mississauga) is the only place that is doing this. Its not Toronto's responsibility to build the Cities beyond its borders.

 

[micheal_can]

Why is it the TTC's job to be the Subway for York Region? At what point do the surrounding Municipalities built their own high order transit? It seems Peele (or Mississauga) is the only place that is doing this. Its not Toronto's responsibility to build the Cities beyond its borders.

Sounds like the attitude from the Metro Toronto days is rearing it's ugly head.

Toronto is not actually paying for anything outside it's borders.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Even before Metropolitan Toronto, the TTC provided transit outside the borders of the old city. See
The Township of York Railways (Deceased)

as a start. See link.

One example:

 

[drum118]

Even before Metropolitan Toronto, the TTC provided transit outside the borders of the old city. See

Because it already existed when TTC came into existing. You also had Weston Rd and Yonge St lines running out of Toronto as well to Port Credit.

 

[OneCity]

Why is it the TTC's job to be the Subway for York Region? At what point do the surrounding Municipalities built their own high order transit? It seems Peele (or Mississauga) is the only place that is doing this. Its not Toronto's responsibility to build the Cities beyond its borders.

The subway is a Toronto legacy and will now start to evolve to release it resposibilties to the Province as we continue to branch out. The TTC is going into the beginning stages of uploading the subway to the Province. Capital first then operations will be soon to follow. Mississauga Centre will certainly be connected by subway in the future. As soon as Richmond Hill is underway we'll see the big push

^Oh for goodness sake, there is no need to extend the subway beyond RHC and VMC centre. There comes a point in time where a subway line is just too long for it's own good, and certain destinations would be better served via other transport options (ie: the GO train). There seriously needs to be an impenetrable wall constructed at VMC and RHC (if ever built) to prevent ridiculous fantasies of extending the subway closer and closer to both Caledon and Barrie. Enough is enough.

For the next couple generations there will absolutely no need to be building subways beyond these large GTA growth Centres surrounding Toronto

 

[Richard White]

Mississauga Centre will certainly be connected by subway in the future. As soon as Richmond Hill is underway we'll see the big push

This was the original idea behind the ERT (RT out of Kipling) along with a subway extension out that way. The idea was to extend the subway to Sherway and eventually to Dixie and Bloor. Had Square One been more established at the time, the idea of a subway extension to there would have likely been proposed.

Honestly, I can see a subway extension to RHC and Square One in the future as both are main hubs.

 

[44 North]

One never knows what will happen in Richmond Hill within the next century. If the density and ridership supports it, there should be nothing wrong with extending the subway further. At this point, maybe the TTC should really consider splitting the Yonge and University-Spadina lines; they're both already getting fairly long. Besides, if York Region is paying for everything, who cares?

Next century? If a city or town is waiting on a subway extension for beyond 2100 maybe it'd be wiser if beforehand another mode is considered. Twiddling thumbs for 100yrs deadset on only one solution just to avoid a transfer doesn't sound very smart.

Regardlss, seems a safe bet that YNSE will go to at least 16th in the first phase. I mean it'll already be 100m away with the underground storage, doubt it was a coincidence such a configuration was deemed most optimal. And we know pols/planners up there want it going further than that in the next two decades, which is within the timeline of its build. Would be an 11th hour amendment not unlike the addition of Hwy 7 to York U extension.

The subway is a Toronto legacy and will now start to evolve to release it resposibilties to the Province as we continue to branch out. The TTC is going into the beginning stages of uploading the subway to the Province. Capital first then operations will be soon to follow. Mississauga Centre will certainly be connected by subway in the future. As soon as Richmond Hill is underway we'll see the big push

Not sure what crystal ball you're looking into but I don't think the TTC is in the beginning stages of being uploaded. Because Doug promised it means nothing. Dalton promised the same thing 15yrs ago.