Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Oooh, Tory said so, eh? I'm so mad!
And he knows so much about transit. REAL PEOPLE tell me they think the Yonge subway will save them 2 hours on their commute. I'm sure he'll be impressed ;)

But did you read the whole CBC article?Rather weird you'd quote an article that has multiple paragraphs about the Yonge line in it in this thread and selectively quote them. First, Tory says Toronto's transit plans are entirely in the province's hands and then Del Duca says, despite Toronto's position, he's not so sure the Yonge line can't go ahead of the DRL.

Lemme help you:
Another political football being kicked back and forth on Monday was the possible Richmond Hill subway extension, which would see the Yonge subway line expand north from Finch Avenue and up to Highway 7.
"The Yonge line can't go an inch closer to Richmond Hill until we have shovels in the ground digging out that much needed subway relief line," said Tory on Monday, arguing that the system is stretched too thin to accommodate more riders.

Del Duca, whose government put $55 million towards planning the Richmond Hill extension in June, wouldn't definitively say that the downtown relief line should come first.

"Both projects have merit. We're going to keep working with our municipal partners to make sure that at some point both get built," he said.

So, lemme add that up: Province is in charge over Toronto according to Tory and the province isn't necessarily agreeing DRL is ahead of Yonge North. Interesting.

Woof back atcha!
 
So, lemme add that up: Province is in charge over Toronto according to Tory and the province isn't necessarily agreeing DRL is ahead of Yonge North. Interesting.

Sure the province can build the subway to Richmond Hill, but the TTC doesn't have to operate it past Steeles :D

Montreal made the same threat to Laval and the province was quick to end the dispute by paying Montreal what it was owed by Laval

Woof back atcha!
 
You can't just steal my thing exactly, man.

You needed to add an extra "woof" or an extra "back" to make that sing.
:)

But, sure let's trigger a "transit civil war." Toronto has certainly shown of late how well equipped its proverbial generals are to stand up and fight for thoughtful, honest, cost-effective transit planning.
 
Sure the province can build the subway to Richmond Hill, but the TTC doesn't have to operate it past Steeles :D

Montreal made the same threat to Laval and the province was quick to end the dispute by paying Montreal what it was owed by Laval

Woof back atcha!

This is the same with the TYSSE where Vaughan and York Region helped pay the construction costs, but does not pay the operation and maintenance costs. The TTC will not want to pay to operate 2 lines (technically 1) outside of Toronto and will want money. IMO, York Region (Vaughan, Markham, Richmond Hill) should pay for the construction cost AS WELL as the operation and maintenance costs from Pioneer Village to VMC and Steeles to RHC. There is a chance that this would happen and the TTC would be happy to operate the subways outside of Toronto for free (mostly), and keep the fares all to themselves. The fare revenue may change when Metrolinx actually gets Fare Integration to be better than the current "system" (if you can call its that), but that's probably not going to happen soon either :(.
 
Oooh, Tory said so, eh? I'm so mad!
And he knows so much about transit. REAL PEOPLE tell me they think the Yonge subway will save them 2 hours on their commute. I'm sure he'll be impressed ;)

But did you read the whole CBC article?Rather weird you'd quote an article that has multiple paragraphs about the Yonge line in it in this thread and selectively quote them. First, Tory says Toronto's transit plans are entirely in the province's hands and then Del Duca says, despite Toronto's position, he's not so sure the Yonge line can't go ahead of the DRL.

Lemme help you:


So, lemme add that up: Province is in charge over Toronto according to Tory and the province isn't necessarily agreeing DRL is ahead of Yonge North. Interesting.

Woof back atcha!
Del Duca said a statement full of nothing. His riding in in york. He could have agreed with Tory, but we can't even get him to finish GO Service.
 
They're all full of nothing. And it's hard to imagine anything big happening in the little time the Liberals have left.

OTOH, strange things happen in campaigns.

But he didn't back Tory up and Salsa posted Tory's statement without Del Duca's response. If you're saying it all amounts to a shrug and the status quo, I'm in no position to disagree at all.

Why would I be "mad" about Tory saying Yonge won't go first when Del Duca offered something that amounts to "maybe."? Same as it ever was.
 
Oooh, Tory said so, eh? I'm so mad!
And he knows so much about transit. REAL PEOPLE tell me they think the Yonge subway will save them 2 hours on their commute. I'm sure he'll be impressed ;)
Touche. I guess this is the state of affairs in this region now.

Sigh, the issue with Yonge North is that it is a perfectly logical extension, it has the ridership numbers, the development potential, everything.

If only we could get building the DRL.
 
If only we could get building the DRL.

And we can't because Toronto has shown itself utterly incapable of prioritizing projects, sticking to a plan or choosing what to build with limited resources.

I've stated my position several times but:
-I would like to see both projects proceed at the same time. Yonge should go first because it's closer to shovel ready and all the planning is in place and it won't overwhelm the system on opening day. I wouldn't approve it without the DRL following close behind, but I also wouldn't wait for the DRL, especially given Toronto's record of dithering.

I also have no problem with the notion YR taxpayers should contribute to operating costs, whether it's through fare integration or a levy or whatever.

That said, Toronto City Council has made so many legitimately embarrassing transit decisions in the past 6-7 years and wasted so many billions and so many years that I've built up enough cynicism that I don't really care what priorities are in their politicians' imagination.

While I understand and do not dismiss the legitimate capacity concerns, I really don't think Toronto has earned the right to have a say on any of this stuff anymore and am not remotely impressed or intimidated by the mayor's grandstanding on his transit high horse. He's spent all his transit political capital and lost me these last few months entirely - especially with his prevarications over the past few weeks - and his opinion on what "makes sense" in terms of the region's infrastructure means nothing to me. He has no clue. Call me when the ELRT opens.

So, if the planning is going to be "political" either way, I have no real problem with the province "overruling" the dolts at Toronto City Council - who are so low as to vote against doing a business case or comparative study for a line they're determined to build for entirely political reasons - and benefiting the politicians in York Region who have devised and stuck to a comprehensive plan and implemented the planning to facilitate growth.

Beyond that, not much news today: Toronto still opposed. Province still hemming and hawing and leaving the door just a teeny bit open, just in case.
 
While I understand and do not dismiss the legitimate capacity concerns, I really don't think Toronto has earned the right to have a say on any of this stuff anymore and am not remotely impressed or intimidated by the mayor's grandstanding on his transit high horse.
There is a human cost to this cynicism.

Eventually, someone is going to be pushed off the Bloor platform at rush hour. (Or perhaps at Eglinton after the Crosstown opens, the platforms on Eglinton are even narrower.)

I'm not wishing for this obviously, or waiting for it to happen to say "told you so". It is just that the capacity concerns are more than just "gee, guess I am late for work again".
 
They're all full of nothing. And it's hard to imagine anything big happening in the little time the Liberals have left.

OTOH, strange things happen in campaigns.

But he didn't back Tory up and Salsa posted Tory's statement without Del Duca's response. If you're saying it all amounts to a shrug and the status quo, I'm in no position to disagree at all.

Why would I be "mad" about Tory saying Yonge won't go first when Del Duca offered something that amounts to "maybe."? Same as it ever was.
Its much more accurate to say Neoliberals rather than Liberals. I'm just sayin
 
-I would like to see both projects proceed at the same time. Yonge should go first because it's closer to shovel ready and all the planning is in place and it won't overwhelm the system on opening day. I wouldn't approve it without the DRL following close behind, but I also wouldn't wait for the DRL, especially given Toronto's record of dithering.

I also have no problem with the notion YR taxpayers should contribute to operating costs, whether it's through fare integration or a levy or whatever.

That said, Toronto City Council has made so many legitimately embarrassing transit decisions in the past 6-7 years and wasted so many billions and so many years that I've built up enough cynicism that I don't really care what priorities are in their politicians' imagination.

While I understand and do not dismiss the legitimate capacity concerns, I really don't think Toronto has earned the right to have a say on any of this stuff anymore and am not remotely impressed or intimidated by the mayor's grandstanding on his transit high horse. He's spent all his transit political capital and lost me these last few months entirely - especially with his prevarications over the past few weeks - and his opinion on what "makes sense" in terms of the region's infrastructure means nothing to me. He has no clue. Call me when the ELRT opens.

So, if the planning is going to be "political" either way, I have no real problem with the province "overruling" the dolts at Toronto City Council - who are so low as to vote against doing a business case or comparative study for a line they're determined to build for entirely political reasons - and benefiting the politicians in York Region who have devised and stuck to a comprehensive plan and implemented the planning to facilitate growth.
Toronto and Tory really have poisoned the well, and so has Il Duce.

I see an option few seem to agree with:

Let the 'subway' touters have their subway extension north, but at the same time, an entirely new approach to the DRL, and Il Duce has his chance to 'make the trains run on time' (albeit Mussolini never said that, but whatever):

DRL is deep tunnel, full gauge track and loading, part of RER with run through either end onto existing GO tracks. Model will be Crossrail, track branches onto different legs of RER each end and the tunnel runs under Queen with connections to both the Georgetown Corridor and Lakeshore West. In the north, a number of connections to present RER corridors would makes sense, including the old O&Q (CP) alignment if electrified by VIA for HFR, which would continue to use the connection down Don Valley to Union. Many options could/would be possible on connections, including a connection to Lakeshore East at the Don R and Queen. Estimated cost? Twice that for DRL. Payback? More than twice, easily, ridership and fare-box return and saved costs for Union not having to be enlarged, and transfers to TTC minimized.

Financed by? The Infrastructure Bank. Both Ontario and Toronto especially are tapped. Metrolinx would run it with co-operation of VIA if the O&Q is used, or as trade-off for HFR using Metrolinx track into and through Union.

I just don't see Toronto being capable of feeding and caring for itself. If you dig a tunnel, dig a real one, and then let Toronto provide the TTC connections between the wider spaced stations that RER will require.
 
Toronto and Tory really have poisoned the well, and so has Il Duce.

I see an option few seem to agree with:

Let the 'subway' touters have their subway extension north, but at the same time, an entirely new approach to the DRL, and Il Duce has his chance to 'make the trains run on time' (albeit Mussolini never said that, but whatever):

DRL is deep tunnel, full gauge track and loading, part of RER with run through either end onto existing GO tracks. Model will be Crossrail, track branches onto different legs of RER each end and the tunnel runs under Queen with connections to both the Georgetown Corridor and Lakeshore West. In the north, a number of connections to present RER corridors would makes sense, including the old O&Q (CP) alignment if electrified by VIA for HFR, which would continue to use the connection down Don Valley to Union. Many options could/would be possible on connections. Estimated cost? Twice that for DRL. Payback? More than twice, easily, ridership and fare-box return and saved costs for Union not having to be enlarged, and transfers to TTC minimized.

Financed by? The Infrastructure Bank. Both Ontario and Toronto especially are tapped. Metrolinx would run it with co-operation of VIA if the O&Q is used, or as trade-off for HFR using Metrolinx track into and through Union.

I just don't see Toronto being capable of feeding and caring for itself. If you dig a tunnel, dig a real one, and then let Toronto provide the TTC connections between the wider spaced stations that RER will require.

We started planning for the Relief Line more than three years ago and are now very close to completing planning for the line. Metrolinx, TTC and the City of Toronto all independently studied solutions, ranging from busses to subway to RER, and they've all come up with the same solution. The technology for the line was determined long ago. Nobody, whether it be at the political or bureaucratic level, is considering an RER solution for the Relief Line.
 

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