TTC: Transit City Bus Plan

[Panzerfaust]

The Dupont enhancement was hilarious. I felt like searching for waldo looking for the ''enhancement''

Anyone care to tell me how adding those awnings will cost 200,000 dollars? They are awnings. Awnings are not complex and they do not require detailed design. You put them up and they keep ice from falling on people's heads.

I mean, I knew the TTC likes to overspend, but 200k awnings? Is there some hidden reason that I'm not seeing for this costing so much?

 

[lead82]

they are special TTC awnings, that will require 3 supervisors to watch while one construction worker installs them. Since those supervisors will be working over time, they will bill 1.5x rate. Add in materials, planning and detailed design, I foresee this project costing $1M and taking 2 years to complete.

 

[nfitz]

Expect that the section between Yonge & Don Mills will be a hybrid lane for both BRT and LRT.

I doubt that will happen; the centre poles will keep the buses out ... and if they manage to solve that issue ... I just can't see the express buses overtaking the stop-everywhere LRTs ... can you imagine the mess if there was a head-on collision?

nfitz, my impression is this is not a plan that TTC staff would have proposed on their own. I could be wrong, but this is likely something Giambrone/Miller/Perks and others promoted. I'd be surprised if they did not also consult respected transit advocates and/or established transport consultants.

I'd say there's been a lot of consultation in. Hopefully they've got buy in from everyone.

One thing I'm wondering about is the partial bus-only shoulders on the DVP that GO has been asking the city for -- for ages. These could potentially be used by TTC for more expresses, no?

Hmm ... would TTC benefit from these? It might work for a simple Don Mills to Pape non-stop express; however very few riders do the entire journey (even though it's already quicker than taking the subway). But if you want to service the major nodes along that route (York Mills/Don Mills; Lawrence/Don Mills, Eglinton/Don Mills, Flemingdon Park, Thorncliffe), the DVP just isn't that useful. Perhaps should be an entirely separate project.

 

[nfitz]

Hmm, though as I ponder it ... the only way express will save much time south of Overlea is to go down Don Mills Road, and along the DVP to Castle Frank. That might use DVP shoulders ... though as Steve Munro pointed out earlier today - there will be no need for GO buses heading into downtown in a few years - at least during peak.

Hmm, Castle Frank, up the DVP to Don Mills Road non-stop to Overlea ... now that would be an express trip!!!

 

[Northern Light]

Shoulder Lanes

To the best of my knowledge....

The shoulder lanes proposal was only for the section of the DVP between Eglinton and #401.

Adding some space there is much easier, with a median for some of the distance, and relatively flat ground within the ROW next to the existing highway.

There is definitely no room for an extra lane next to Bloor.

The Don Mills LRT or express proposals that used the Castle Frank connection (and in my mind were imaginary fantasy at best), used Bayview Ave, not the DVP

***

Even the northerly section is complicated. South of Lawrence the DVP passes within 10M of the East Don River on its east, and a within 10m of a storm water pond on its west.

 

[nfitz]

To the best of my knowledge....

The shoulder lanes proposal was only for the section of the DVP between Eglinton and #401.

No, for the Don Mills Road BRT they discussed running on shoulders from Don Mills Road to Bloor:

http://www.toronto.ca/planning/pdf/appendix_g_pt3b.pdf

"The proposed concept for a BRT system consists of the following routing alternatives:
Southbound
Beginning at the Sheppard Subway, buses would travel south on Don Mills Road to Overlea Blvd. From Overlea two alternative routes have been identified:
Alternative 1: Buses would continue south on Don Mills Road to the DVP. Some buses could exit the DVP at the Bloor/Bayview ramp and proceed to the Castle Frank Station on the Bloor-Danforth Subway." ...
"Don Valley Parkway From Don Mills Road to the Bayview/Bloor Ramp
Between Don Mills Road and the Bayview/Bloor ramp the existing shoulders are about 2.5m wide. Therefore the widening required to allow use of the shoulder would likely occur on the west side where the land drops sharply into the valley. The shoulder on the west (i.e. valley) side would have to be widened by about 1.5m."

I recall some figures at the time.

Obviously though they wouldn't do any infrastructure construction for a temporary express route ... they'd just run in mixed traffic on the DVP.

 

[Eug]

What is the current funding status of the various BRT routes? Is this accurate:

Downsview - York U - Going live soon.
Yonge North - On hold
Kingston Rd - Priority with study near completion, but no funding.
Scarborough to Durham - Too early to discuss funding
Kipling to Mississauga - Too early to discuss funding
Wilson to Keele - Too early to discuss funding

 

[RedRocket191]

What is the current funding status of the various BRT routes? Is this accurate:

Downsview - York U - Going live soon.
Yonge North - On hold
Kingston Rd - Priority with study near completion, but no funding.
Scarborough to Durham - Too early to discuss funding
Kipling to Mississauga - Too early to discuss funding
Wilson to Keele - Too early to discuss funding

Scarborough to Durham - Potentially part of the Durham Region BRT project. Funded under Metrolinx Quick Wins in 2007.

Kipling to Mississauga - Part of the Mississauga Busway, fully funded.

 

[Eug]

OK then, an optimist might say potentially the only truly unfunded ones are Kingston Road - Danforth, and Wilson - Keele, with the good news being that these two projects are needed yet probably inexpensive and therefore relatively easy to justify funding for.

Still, I do wonder where the money is going to come from. A lot of money has already been thrown around, and I wonder how much the govts are going to want to keep doing this. Toronto is having a hard time with its own finances, and McGuinty is starting to get sick of Miller with his hand out all the time. And we all know what John Baird thinks of Miller.

Is there a preliminary cost analysis of Kingston-Danforth and Wilson-Keele somewhere? Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see it mentioned in the plan.

 

[Whoaccio]

Not that it matters, but those new wheeltrans buses look god awful. I hope the TTC is getting a good deal or something because I feel like a little piece of me just died.

 

[DavidH]

Scarborough to Durham - Potentially part of the Durham Region BRT project. Funded under Metrolinx Quick Wins in 2007.

The Quick Win gave funding for Durham to build a new garage, buy some buses, and make stop improvements (none of which seem anywhere near happening as far as I can tell). Implementation of actual BRT lanes has not yet been funded, and it's not clear that Metrolinx would fund lanes along Ellesmere instead of simply having the Durham buses use the upcoming GO BRT along the 401.

If Durham DOES go along Ellesmere, it will be a reduction in service quality from what GO's route 94 currently offers, since we'll trade 100 km/h between the Rouge and STC for perhaps 50 km/h depending on how that Ellesmere BRT is designed. Granted it will offer extra stops...

 

[RedRocket191]

^ which is why I said "potentially"

 

[CDL.TO]

Not that it matters, but those new wheeltrans buses look god awful. I hope the TTC is getting a good deal or something because I feel like a little piece of me just died.

They look like the TTC built them in-house by bolting an old section of bus to a pickup truck.

 

[W. K. Lis]

When they mean transit priority signals, do they mean signal lights only for streetcars and buses?

The signals mean (from left to right): "go straight ahead", "go left", "go right", "go in any direction" (like the "green" of a normal traffic light), "stop, unless the emergency brake is needed" (equal to "yellow"), and "stop" (equal to "red").
At the moment, Ontario only allows the "go straight ahead" signal, as listed on their driver's handbook. The signals shown above as what they have in Europe.

Could, with the proper transit signals in place, this would allow for buses to make a left hook turn from the right lane?

Hook turns are shown as 2.
Bicycles and pedestrians usually do this kind of left turn, except they have to use two sets of signals.

 

[CDL.TO]

I'm not sure if there's anywhere in Ontario yet where a transit "left hook" move occurs. But there are plenty of places where transit vehicles are allowed to turn on the vertical white bar. That signal is not dedicated to "straight ahead".

The transit signals westbound on St. Clair at Vaughan Road have two transit priority signals (for 5 signals in total). Top to bottom: Transit Priority 1, Red, Yellow, Green, Transit Priority 2. These signals allow buses to perform a "right hook" from the ROW onto Vaughan Road northbound, a "queue jump" from the ROW into the normal roadway , or a left turn from the ROW onto Vaughan Road southbound (only used by streetcars going returning to the yard).