TTC: Streetcar Network

[thettctransitfanatic]

The 501L should be renumbered to 507 LONG BRANCH, run from the Long Branch Loop to Dundas West Station. However, they will need to reconfigure the Dundas West Station layout to handle more streetcar routes first.

But, if that is not a possibly, keep things as they are now.

 

[reaperexpress]

So how does that work at Broadview/Queen where it's not unusual to see two 504s both turning simultaneously?

The idea is for the second operator to verify the switches are aligned correctly on the opposite vehicle before proceeding. If a southbound car is turning right, a second, eastbound car can proceed as soon as it's clear that the first car has been successfully sent to the right. Similarly on Spadina, you'll notice that the second car will start moving once the first car is about halfway through the intersection.

Déjà vu all over again as per the King Street Pilot. @reaperexpress is very well informed on this issue. I invite his response and of others on this. I hear conflicting accounts now as to whether the King Pilot has full priority or not. I think not! All one has to do is look at how other cities prioritize this, some with arms that come down across intersections. That degree shouldn't be necessary, but it's indicative of how Toronto is far from being in alignment with best practice, even within Ontario.

In the King Street pilot area, TSP is on at all the intersections where it is equipped. As indicated by the City's open data (conveniently displayed on this site), TSP is not equipped at University, Bay, or Yonge. Additionally although TSP is equipped at Spadina, it's only used to insert the phase for streetcars turning off of Spadina. Neither King nor Spadina cars actually get priority when travelling through that intersection.

As CRS1026 noted, there is absolutely no TSP on the Queensway whatsoever. Part of the complication is that west of Parkside the Queensway runs on the SCOOT adaptive signal system, whose TSP system is very weak (so that transit doesn't disrupt the 'optimized' timings) and was therefore never accepted by the TTC.* The current opportunity is that the SCOOT system is being old and falling apart, and one of the interim solutions is to convert those intersections to the TransSuite control system**, which supports the TTC's powerful TSP system.

I think the 4 SCOOT signals on the Queensway ROW should be converted from SCOOT to TransSuite since it's just a single main route with minor cross-streets. Regardless of traffic control system, the north-south phases will always be at the minimum allowable lengths and the left-turn phases will be only as long as required for the real-time queue. So SCOOT isn't optimizing anything other than the duration of the east-west green. TransSuite is capable of optimizing a single direction using its 'traffic responsive' feature***, so it could pretty much match the traffic performance of SCOOT anyway while actually allowing for strong transit priority.

Sources:
* Adaptive traffic signal RFP, page 12. No longer online, but I quoted this portion in this earlier post.
** Traffic Congestion Management report, page 8
*** Traffic Signal Operations & Policy, page xvi

 

[W. K. Lis]

The idea is for the second operator to verify the switches are aligned correctly on the opposite vehicle before proceeding. If a southbound car is turning right, a second, eastbound car can proceed as soon as it's clear that the first car has been successfully sent to the right. Similarly on Spadina, you'll notice that the second car will



In the King Street pilot area, TSP is on at all the intersections where it is equipped. As indicated by the City's open data (conveniently displayed on this site), TSP is not equipped at University, Bay, or Yonge. Additionally although TSP is equipped at Spadina, it's only used to insert the phase for streetcars turning off of Spadina. Neither King nor Spadina cars actually get priority when travelling through that intersection.

As CRS1026 noted, there is absolutely no TSP on the Queensway whatsoever. Part of the complication is that west of Parkside the Queensway runs on the SCOOT adaptive signal system, whose TSP system is very weak (so that transit doesn't disrupt the 'optimized' timings) and was therefore never accepted by the TTC.* The current opportunity is that the SCOOT system is being old and falling apart, and one of the interim solutions is to convert those intersections to the TransSuite control system**, which supports the TTC's powerful TSP system.

I think the 4 SCOOT signals on the Queensway ROW should be converted from SCOOT to TransSuite since it's just a single main route with minor cross-streets. Regardless of traffic control system, the north-south phases will always be at the minimum allowable lengths and the left-turn phases will be only as long as required for the real-time queue. So SCOOT isn't optimizing anything other than the duration of the east-west green. TransSuite is capable of optimizing a single direction using its 'traffic responsive' feature***, so it could pretty much match the traffic performance of SCOOT anyway while actually allowing for strong transit priority.

Sources:
* Adaptive traffic signal RFP, page 12. No longer online, but I quoted this portion in this earlier post.
** Traffic Congestion Management report, page 8
*** Traffic Signal Operations & Policy, page xvi

Shows to me that for the Roads Department, that transit are third class behind the automobile and trucks. Only bicycles and pedestrians are lower classes to them. It is the Roads Department that control the traffic lights, shows that in them not pushed for the unique transit signals used elsewhere in the world.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Shows to me that for the Roads Department, that transit are third class behind the automobile and trucks. Only bicycles and pedestrians are lower classes to them. It is the Roads Department that control the traffic lights, shows that in them not pushed for the unique transit signals used elsewhere in the world.

You know what, I agree 1 million percent with you. Transit should be 1st class to automobiles, same with cyclists.

 

[smallspy]

So how does that work at Broadview/Queen where it's not unusual to see two 504s both turning simultaneously?

Simple - they're not supposed to.

Of course, they're not supposed to exceed 10km/h over specialwork either, and they're supposed to stop at each facing switch - but we all know that those rules aren't followed 100% of the time, either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

Simple - they're not supposed to.

I'm surprised, given how frequently I see that movement.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Simple - they're not supposed to.

Of course, they're not supposed to exceed 10km/h over specialwork either, and they're supposed to stop at each facing switch - but we all know that those rules aren't followed 100% of the time, either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Why doesn't TTC enforce this type of stuff..

 

[smallspy]

Why doesn't TTC enforce this type of stuff..

The better question is: why does the TTC constantly have knee-jerk reactions and institute silly rules like this when they don't need to?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[micheal_can]

I am wondering with the LRT future construction, would there be a future Streetcar network expansion?

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

The better question is: why does the TTC constantly have knee-jerk reactions and institute silly rules like this when they don't need to?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Actually, yes, this is a silly rule. Up there with the rule in my old French class...

 

[steveintoronto]

TSP is not equipped at University, Bay, or Yonge. Additionally although TSP is equipped at Spadina, it's only used to insert the phase for streetcars turning off of Spadina. Neither King nor Spadina cars actually get priority when travelling through that intersection.

And it shows. Many thanks for that and the entire post. The Queensway remains one of the golden gifts to Toronto streetcars that still hasn't been unboxed. It's a bit like a stretch of highway used as a local street to stroll along. And has been for some fifty years or more.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I am wondering with the LRT future construction, would there be a future Streetcar network expansion?

From link...

The East Harbour Transit Hub. Rendering via First Gulf.

 

[DSC]

From TO-In-View there seem to be a few streetcar track projects planned for 2019.

• Roncesvalles/Queen/King intersection and sections of track nearby on King, Queen and Queensway etc
• Bathurst from Queen to Dundas
• McCaul from College to Dundas
• Victoria from Queen to Dundas
• Wellington from Yonge to Church
• Queen @ Kingston Road and adjacent

 

[micheal_can]

From link...

The East Harbour Transit Hub. Rendering via First Gulf.

By the time it is announced that construction will begin, who's to say it won't be LRT. I am thinking this is akin to the SRT. There were plans for more, but it got shelved.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

And it shows. Many thanks for that and the entire post. The Queensway remains one of the golden gifts to Toronto streetcars that still hasn't been unboxed. It's a bit like a stretch of highway used as a local street to stroll along. And has been for some fifty years or more.

Well, from February onwards in 2019, the Queensway ROW will be shut down to allow for the row to be extended to Roncesvalles, junctions into the carhouse replaced, intersection of Queen-King-Roncesvalles to get track replaced, bumpouts on Roncesvalles to be modified for Flexity ramps, and intercestion improvements. If my master, @drum118, can provide more info so everyone is inform.