TTC: Streetcar Network

[nfitz]

The 501 could do the local service just as well as the 504 on the north/south trunks, and the 504 could be the one to run through to the Beaches.The trackwork is obviously already in place to allow this, both ends (Roncy and Broadview).

That's a thought ...

Certainly operationally easy enough.

Might confuse the punters. I'd think you need a detailed origin-destination survey to evaluate if there are benefits.

Extending the King pilot to Queen would be my first preference.

 

[steveintoronto]

Extending the King pilot to Queen would be my first preference.

Paralleled to the present King Pilot downtown, or on the outer sections? If downtown, it would certainly simplify doing what I'm proposing. My reticence to support Queen downtown is due to the limited resources being available to do it. In theory, and combined with the Relief Line terminal ostensibly at Osgoode, (although that's still a decade away at the very earliest) that would make good sense.

To anyone reading this and wondering why we'd even be considering detaching the 'ends' of the 504 from the subway, and stretching it east-west instead, consider that the numbers might (probably) indicate a great number of passengers than now wanting to stay on that alignment to get to their destination without doing it via the subway, and also avoiding having to transfer or being taken indirectly by having to transfer to a bus again for the final leg of their journey.

Since Roncesvalles and Broadview are slow arteries, perhaps even worse, any other route to transport passengers wishing to head north can't be any slower than what the 504 is on the present north/south alignments at the ends, and meantime, for those wishing to stay on a 'just east-west alignment' on the 504 would have a more direct and predictable ride downtown or back.

It's far from being 'transit priority' all the way (save for the Queensway, which will be the fastest part of the route), but it would be an improvement over what's presently available, and at a very low cost, as almost all the infrastructure (save for extra steps at Parkside, etc) is already extant.

 

[nfitz]

Paralleled to the present King Pilot downtown, or on the outer sections?

In the area downtown, there there are parallel streets. Something like Parliament to Bathurst should deal with most of the congestion.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Paralleled to the present King Pilot downtown, or on the outer sections? If downtown, it would certainly simplify doing what I'm proposing. My reticence to support Queen downtown is due to the limited resources being available to do it. In theory, and combined with the Relief Line terminal ostensibly at Osgoode, (although that's still a decade away at the very earliest) that would make good sense.

To anyone reading this and wondering why we'd even be considering detaching the 'ends' of the 504 from the subway, and stretching it east-west instead, consider that the numbers might (probably) indicate a great number of passengers than now wanting to stay on that alignment to get to their destination without doing it via the subway, and also avoiding having to transfer or being taken indirectly by having to transfer to a bus again for the final leg of their journey.

Since Roncesvalles and Broadview are slow arteries, perhaps even worse, any other route to transport passengers wishing to head north can't be any slower than what the 504 is on the present north/south alignments at the ends, and meantime, for those wishing to stay on a 'just east-west alignment' on the 504 would have a more direct and predictable ride downtown or back.

It's far from being 'transit priority' all the way (save for the Queensway, which will be the fastest part of the route), but it would be an improvement over what's presently available, and at a very low cost, as almost all the infrastructure (save for extra steps at Parkside, etc) is already extant.

Queen is a hard sell for a pilot project, mainly because a lot of the businesses from University to Spadina say they need the car traffic, I believe.

 

[KevinT]

Queen is a hard sell for a pilot project, mainly because a lot of the businesses from University to Spadina say they need the car traffic, I believe.

Bet when the time comes for the DRL to replace the 501 they'll complain just as quickly about the loss of eyeballs and foot traffic from the streetcars. People just hate change, even when its for the better.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Bet when the time comes for the DRL to replace the 501 they'll complain just as quickly about the loss of eyeballs and foot traffic from the streetcars. People just hate change, even when its for the better.

They haven't said in any of the plans that the 501 will go away, in fact, they plan for it to enhance the DRL which will only have two stops on Queen st.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Bet when the time comes for the DRL to replace the 501 they'll complain just as quickly about the loss of eyeballs and foot traffic from the streetcars. People just hate change, even when its for the better.

I doubt that the DRL would completely replace the 501, as the DRL would only run for a short portion along Queen.

 

[nfitz]

They haven't said in any of the plans that the 501 will go away, in fact, they plan for it to enhance the DRL which will only have two stops on Queen st.

Four stops - the two existing stations, Sherbourne, and Carlaw. And from a it's hardly a long walk (about 150 metres) from the King/Sumach entrance of Sumach station to Queen and Sumach; I frequently walk this now to change from a 504A to a 501 streetcar.

Though that does nothing to reduce the usage of 501 on Queen West. And the 501 on Queen East is already packed heading westbound at Carlaw. I don't see as many people boarding 501 between Broadview and Sherbourne as I do on 501, where the Ontario, Parliament, Sumach, and River stops are very well used.

 

[Kitsune]

The 501 is a "listed" / part of the Queen West Heritage district - it'll always be there even with Relief Line West

 

[steveintoronto]

Can you explain how such a proposed express bus would be turned around at Queensway? What routing would it take? From Google Maps, I don't see any location where a bus loop can be built near the stop. Buses would have to turn onto Lakeshore road and then make a U-turn. As well, a bus bay built underneath the streetcar stop would take away from the sidewalk. A better location might be at South Kingsway, where buses can easily be turned around by the following routing with a bus bay built right next to the streetcar stop. As well, there is plenty of room at the marker to build a bus bay.

I'm very pleased to have an answer I've been ruminating on. It's far from perfect, but it will work. And the cost is minute compared to the big picture.

I initially mentioned the gap between the Queensway and the CN tracks as a possible loop for buses on Parkside as a shuttle to the Keele subway, but had only checked it out on Google map, can be very misleading. Just happened to be passing there on foot today hiking distance with the Big Black Lab (he loves the lake as well as High Park, and yes, he was in swimming...don't ask!) and got some pics of said gap possible for a loop, and then Lab and I walked up the steps within the Queensway/Parkside bridge, and caught a streetcar east. I'll try and get a pic from up on the Queensway overlooking it when I don't have the dog with me.

Here again is the location on Google Map:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/To...23555502ab4c477!8m2!3d43.653226!4d-79.3831843

And here's the satellite view of same:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/To...23555502ab4c477!8m2!3d43.653226!4d-79.3831843

There's only just enough space for a turning loop, but it's there, plus space for a load/unload platform close to Parkside, to allow passengers to walk around the corner, under the bridge, and up the stairs. I was looking at the steps closely today. A new passage could be cut from the first landing south directly to a bus platform later, but for now, all that would be needed is a loop, added lights for buses to turn east from going south into the loop, and it would be tight, but no tighter than at many bus platforms now on the subway bus platforms, let alone streetcar ones.

Remember, I don't tout Parkside alone as a north-south semi-express link to the subway. Other posters are making the cases for a number of them further west, and *together* they offer greater flexibility and distributed loading. If one route is blocked by an accident, two or three others will continue to offer alternatives.

And semi-express north/south routes on the South Kingsway and further west to the Humber Bay Shores would offer much greater connection either way in peak. Mimico is getting a GO station, and I suspect that defines the western limit for a 504 being needed, or do others think the present Humber Loop would be enough if frequent Long Branch service is initiated?

Most of their destinations are along King or Queen. Even now if I want to get from the Humber Bay area it would take 55 minutes if I'm on the 501 to Downtown (including the walk to the Humber Loop) versus 1h 5min via 66/2/1. And of course you are stuck when the subway breaks down.

This is resonating with me. It makes so much sense, and I'm glad you've offered the times to journey, because it makes a number of points, one being that the streetcar way, if streamlined, will do it in even less time, and the subway, and present bus routes, can only get worse.

 

[TransitBart]

Is 511 a bustitution because of streetcar shortage or some other construction project?

 

[DSC]

Is 511 a bustitution because of streetcar shortage or some other construction project?

Sometimes questions can be answered by TTC website. Where it states: "Service on 511 BATHURST will be replaced by buses, due to a shortage of streetcars." (though they are also doing work at Bathurst Station.)

 

[DSC]

This weekend, while the 504 is partly bus service, I was pleased to see the TTC working on the new overhead at King & Parliament. I think this is the last 'junction" on the 504 route that needs overhead - though there are certainly many straight stretches along King that appear to not have yet been converted.

 

[TransitBart]

This weekend, while the 504 is partly bus service, I was pleased to see the TTC working on the new overhead at King & Parliament. I think this is the last 'junction" on the 504 route that needs overhead - though there are certainly many straight stretches along King that appear to not have yet been converted.

It seems boneheaded that you can't run into service from Leslie Barns to the routes using pantograph. Let's see if 504 can run to the yard with pantographs. Although I note that the first routes to convert 509, 510, 512 - have literally zero diversions. King and Queen have many - so to short turn up Shaw for xample, you could need to shift from one power pick up to another. The easy conversions are done. The remaining long east-west routes (504, 501, 505 and 506) have tons of needed diversions on non-revenue track. It's time to finish this job which is overdue by a pair of years. I for one won't miss dewiring in an intersection.

 

[drum118]

It seems boneheaded that you can't run into service from Leslie Barns to the routes using pantograph. Let's see if 504 can run to the yard with pantographs. Although I note that the first routes to convert 509, 510, 512 - have literally zero diversions. King and Queen have many - so to short turn up Shaw for xample, you could need to shift from one power pick up to another. The easy conversions are done. The remaining long east-west routes (504, 501, 505 and 506) have tons of needed diversions on non-revenue track. It's time to finish this job which is overdue by a pair of years. I for one won't miss dewiring in an intersection.

I agree with you, considering the whole system was to be done last year. You have a number of intersections east of Spadina on King and Queen that still needs to be rebuilt for pans and schedule to be done by 2020 now. Even some of the new overhead is missing in various locations.

Have seen poles dewire at new intersections as well at Dundas W crossovers, with a photo on Nov 25. Safety issues for the driver and look forward to pans only.