TTC: Streetcar Network

[reaperexpress]

I was waiting for a WB streetcar at King and Church recently. The car that was coming left the Jarvis stop while the light at Church was green. As it approached, the countdown started. Of course, it slowed to a crawl and stopped before going through the intersection. Even though the light had been held for it, I guess the hold is only for a certain period, so it turned from green to red while the streetcar was stopped because of the TTC rules. It was infuriating.

Last I checked, the TSP at King & Church extends the Green/Walk for King streetcars before the start of the pedestrian countdown, then when the streetcar enters the intersection it starts the pedestrian countdown. This is specifically because it takes so long for streetcars to cross the intersection that you might as well let pedestrians keep walking.

Based on streetview, the TSP request detector seems to be just past the stop at Jarvis, so as long as it left the stop before the start of the countdown, TSP will hold the light in Green/Walk until the streetcar reaches the Church St (up to a maximum of 30 seconds).

However, TSP is disabled for streetcars that are less than 90 seconds behind the previous streetcar, to minimize bunching.

If you know it was at least 90 seconds behind the previous streetcar and you saw the streetcar cross the detector before the ped countdown started and yet the ped countdown still started while the streetcar was approaching, then something is broken with the TSP system. Or maybe the operator stopped too far forward and hit the detector before serving the stop. In that case they will miss the green because it will max out the extension before they reach the intersection.

If the signal briefly showed Green/Don't Walk that may have been due to a routine signal timing adjustment rather than the priority system. I doubt they would use Green/Don't Walk extensions at Church given the low speeds.

 

[nfitz]

Last I checked, the TSP at King & Church extends the Green/Walk for King streetcars before the start of the pedestrian countdown, then when the streetcar enters the intersection it starts the pedestrian countdown. This is specifically because it takes so long for streetcars to cross the intersection that you might as well let pedestrians keep walking.

Based on streetview, the TSP request detector seems to be just past the stop at Jarvis, so as long as it left the stop before the start of the countdown, TSP will hold the light in Green/Walk until the streetcar reaches the Church St (up to a maximum of 30 seconds).
View attachment 701531
However, TSP is disabled for streetcars that are less than 90 seconds behind the previous streetcar, to minimize bunching.

If you know it was at least 90 seconds behind the previous streetcar and you saw the streetcar cross the detector before the ped countdown started and yet the ped countdown still started while the streetcar was approaching, then something is broken with the TSP system. Or maybe the operator stopped too far forward and hit the detector before serving the stop. In that case they will miss the green because it will max out the extension before they reach the intersection.

If the signal briefly showed Green/Don't Walk that may have been due to a routine signal timing adjustment rather than the priority system. I doubt they would use Green/Don't Walk extensions at Church given the low speeds.

I think what it does is hold the light a bit longer if there's a streetcar stopped already at it's stop. Over top of it. Isn't it an antenna so it get's the radio signal from the streetcar ... or bus. Unless it's just the usual ones that detect automobiles that they've used since the 1970s or so.

They have this all over the city for bus routes as well. And judging by the increased frequencies that I see lights holding when they never used to, when there's no TTC vehicles about, there are people who have got some illicit devices that also trigger them.

This isn't transit priority (at least not what we are discussing here). And would be no use for making sure the light is already green when the streetcar gets there - you need far earlier information.

It wouldn't be any good on the far side stops you have on Finch either. I'm not sure there's even a near side stop at this location at Church and King! But I haven't got off there for a while - perhaps they moved it yet again.

 

[reaperexpress]

I think what it does is hold the light a bit longer if there's a streetcar stopped already at it's stop. Over top of it. Isn't it an antenna so it get's the radio signal from the streetcar ... or bus. Unless it's just the usual ones that detect automobiles that they've used since the 1970s or so.

They have two detectors. A "check in" detector (that's the one just past Jarvis that I showed) and a "check-out" detector just past the stop line. Sometimes there are also intermediate detectors to update the streetcar's ETA as it approaches (e.g. WB St Clair & Gunns). The streetcars have radio transponders on the bottom at the front and back that send signals picked up by the detectors. It's the same transponders they use to change track switches. I show it in practice in my TSP intro video:

They have this all over the city for bus routes as well. And judging by the increased frequencies that I see lights holding when they never used to, when there's no TTC vehicles about, there are people who have got some illicit devices that also trigger them.

I have driven a car with TSP but it was totally legitimate because I was genuinely testing the system. There would be no point in a private car to have a TSP transponder since the timing is based on buses/streetcars that stop at bus stops. So it would only really help you if you stop at every bus stop for 20 seconds or so. Which would obviously defeat the purpose.

There are plenty of other reasons a signal might stay green after the pedestrian phase counts down to zero.

This isn't transit priority (at least not what we are discussing here). And would be no use for making sure the light is already green when the streetcar gets there - you need far earlier information.

TSP isn't transit priority? Well I guess it depends what you consider transit priority then. This is a TSP detector and it extends the Walk light for King, or shortens the Walk light for Church. It is actually (just barely) far enough that Church can finish its countdown just before the streetcar arrives, because the streetcars have to stop at the track switch anyway. However, in general it's very rare that streetcars are detected early enough to actually terminate the cross street in time to avoid stopping. In fact, phase truncation is usually impossible anyway since at minor intersections the side street is already the minimum allowable duration for a pedestrian to cross. There's nothing the signal can do to make it any shorter. Especially on wide roads like St Clair or Finch.

It wouldn't be any good on the far side stops you have on Finch either. I'm not sure there's even a near side stop at this location at Church and King! But I haven't got off there for a while - perhaps they moved it yet again.

There is no near side stop at Church & King. That's why the TSP actually works well. The streetcars are detected after they leave the stop at Jarvis, and the TSP system actually has an accurate estimate of when they'll arrive at Church. At most intersections there's a near-side stop so the estimate is usually totally wrong, which causes the TSP to provide a green at completely the wrong time - which in some cases is actually later than it would have if there hadn't been a TSP action at all!

With far-side stops like on Finch the system can potentially work a lot better. Especially since the signals are much further apart so you get an accurate ETA much earlier.