TTC: Streetcar Network

[kv1990]

Pretty sceptical about this after seeing the awkward stops and starts of the autonomous vehicles trialed in the GTA.

are you talking about the automated shuttles they tried? I think this is bit different then that ... but yes its still a relatively new technology but definitely one i think we should keep an eye on

Recommend watching the video (if you haven't already) ... sounds like Australia is giving it a serious look ... will be interesting to see what comes out of it

 

[APTA-2048]

Recommend watching the video (if you haven't already) ... sounds like Australia is giving it a serious look ... will be interesting to see what comes out of it

Good. Let someone else suffer through all the growing pains. And if CRRC’s performance in Boston and Philadelphia is any indication, there will be a lot of them.

 

[TRONto]

are you talking about the automated shuttles they tried? I think this is bit different then that ... but yes its still a relatively new technology but definitely one i think we should keep an eye on

Recommend watching the video (if you haven't already) ... sounds like Australia is giving it a serious look ... will be interesting to see what comes out of it

It's a gadgetbahn. You can checkout the discussions on this forum. Reece has probably done a video on it too.

What we need is more and better managed service.

 

[max]

are you talking about the automated shuttles they tried? I think this is bit different then that ... but yes its still a relatively new technology but definitely one i think we should keep an eye on

Recommend watching the video (if you haven't already) ... sounds like Australia is giving it a serious look ... will be interesting to see what comes out of it

There's no award for being the first to implement a successful technology and we've already been the world's guinea pigs with the Scarborough RT. Let someone else prove it works and let's spend our money on stuff that has already been proven.

 

[smallspy]

Saw this interesting piece on CNBC

Could this new transit system transform cities like New York?

Autonomous Rapid Transit is a cross between light rail and a city bus. Created by the CRRC in China, it's a cost-effective alternative to mass rapid transit. Check out this video to see how it could be utilized in U.S. cities.

www.cnbc.com

Wonder if TTC/ ML has looked into these

I'm genuinely shocked that this is only getting airplay now.

This system was originally created and launched 6 or 7 years, and since then has been largely dropped by most of the organisations that originally worked on it.

And it's not even original - Irisbus in Europe came up with the original idea, and trialed it in a number of locations in the early 2000s. It was an abject failure.

Dan

 

[APTA-2048]

And it's not even original - Irisbus in Europe came up with the original idea, and trialed it in a number of locations in the early 2000s

Including Las Vegas.

 

[KevinT]

You didn't know why they ended up in that situation, maybe they missed a turn, maybe the road was blocked due to an accident.

Missed a turn, called for guidance, didn't get correct guidance. I feel bad for both driver and supervisor, overheard some talk that they were both new.

 

[kv1990]

Good. Let someone else suffer through all the growing pains. And if CRRC’s performance in Boston and Philadelphia is any indication, there will be a lot of them.

To be clear I am advocating more the the technology not the company. I am hoping if more interest in shown in the technology other companies will develop competing products

 

[drum118]

One would think with these issues, TTC would have the overhead rebuilt by now than wasting maintained time and material cost.

""The trolley pole with a shoe at its tip is problematic for longer modern streetcars that draw more electricity than older streetcars. In Toronto, the trolley pole shoe contains a carbon insert to provide electrical contact with the overhead wire and to lower the shoe to clear overhead wire hangers. Carbon inserts wear out and must be periodically replaced. The trolley shoe inserts on Toronto's modern Flexity Outlook streetcars quickly wear out in rainy conditions, lasting as little as eight hours instead of the expected one to two days for shorter older streetcars. The extra current draw shortens the life of the carbon insert. A worn-out carbon insert would damage the overhead wire, stopping streetcar service""

As for the road guideway, Irisbus was to supplied the system and buses for Cleveland BRT Health line, but never got off the ground, with New Flyer suppling the buses.

 

[APTA-2048]

This is somewhat related, but Alstom will also be supplying low floor LRVs to Philadelphia.

SEPTA Board Awards Contract for Purchase of New Trolley Fleet – Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority

www.iseptaphilly.com

 

[drum118]

This is somewhat related, but Alstom will also be supplying low floor LRVs to Philadelphia.

SEPTA Board Awards Contract for Purchase of New Trolley Fleet – Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority

www.iseptaphilly.com

Taken SEPTA ages to decided if they were going to keep streetcars or scrape them. They have close a few routes and will be interesting to see if they are reopen that will require some major rebuilt before service can run on them. Wonder which car are they going to use for SEPTA fleet?

Looks like Alstom will be shipping about 30-40 cars a year once the prototypes are approved for construction.

Marked my calendar for a trip to Phil late 2027 to have a look at the cars and take a ride on them. Need to do a trip before then to get some updated shots of the system before the major overhaul gets underway.

If it wasn't for the Fed's Major Transit Funding, this replacement would still be in the background.

SEPTA is spending up to $863 million for a new trolley fleet​

 

[W. K. Lis]

From a comment on Steve Munro's website at this link...

After walking or poor bus service on Roncesvalles for years hopefully 505 & 506 returning to the yard on Roncesvalles south bound towards Queen always go out of service for the the 5 stops from:​

​

​

Howard Park
Grenidier
High Park Blvd
Garden Ave
Marion St​

​

​

505 and 506 Streetcars for five stops on line 504 heading southbound on Roncesvalles to the maintenance yard are always out of service. Why?​

​

Steve: This is a long-standing issue with the TTC. Years ago, there was a policy to run in service, but then it was changed at least for buses so that they could run express to their garage, often at routes that did not follow their usual path. Streetcars obviously have to follow the tracks, and my understanding is that they are supposed to run in service, but often don’t because operators prefer a private trip back to the carhouse without having to explain to people that, no, we’re not going to Neville, or wherever. Seasoned riders use the carhouse trips, but they are less and less available. I will chase this issue with TTC to see what the official policy is these days.​

 

[max]

From a comment on Steve Munro's website at this link...

After walking or poor bus service on Roncesvalles for years hopefully 505 & 506 returning to the yard on Roncesvalles south bound towards Queen always go out of service for the the 5 stops from:​

​

​

Howard Park​

Grenidier​

High Park Blvd​

Garden Ave​

Marion St​

​

​

505 and 506 Streetcars for five stops on line 504 heading southbound on Roncesvalles to the maintenance yard are always out of service. Why?​

​

Steve: This is a long-standing issue with the TTC. Years ago, there was a policy to run in service, but then it was changed at least for buses so that they could run express to their garage, often at routes that did not follow their usual path. Streetcars obviously have to follow the tracks, and my understanding is that they are supposed to run in service, but often don’t because operators prefer a private trip back to the carhouse without having to explain to people that, no, we’re not going to Neville, or wherever. Seasoned riders use the carhouse trips, but they are less and less available. I will chase this issue with TTC to see what the official policy is these days.​

This reminds me of another ridiculous policy that I think they've actually done away with as I last remember seeing it happen with the CLRVs. During construction where the route terminal was not being served due to construction, the roll signs would still show the normal route terminal. As an example, if the 506 was turning back at Lansdowne due to planned construction the vehicles would still indicate they were proceeding to High Park. The logic was that riders would get confused and not board vehicles since they didn't know where they'd end up!

With the current rolling stock there are so many audio announcements that it shouldn't be as much of a problem, though I'm sure some people are just oblivious until they're told to leave.

 

[W. K. Lis]

This reminds me of another ridiculous policy that I think they've actually done away with as I last remember seeing it happen with the CLRVs. During construction where the route terminal was not being served due to construction, the roll signs would still show the normal route terminal. As an example, if the 506 was turning back at Lansdowne due to planned construction the vehicles would still indicate they were proceeding to High Park. The logic was that riders would get confused and not board vehicles since they didn't know where they'd end up!

With the current rolling stock there are so many audio announcements that it shouldn't be as much of a problem, though I'm sure some people are just oblivious until they're told to leave.

On the original streetcars, like the Peter Witts and PCCs, they had the names of loops that were small sidestreets. There were the KING VINCENT or KING ERINDALE. See other loops and wyes.

 

[DSC]

This reminds me of another ridiculous policy that I think they've actually done away with as I last remember seeing it happen with the CLRVs. During construction where the route terminal was not being served due to construction, the roll signs would still show the normal route terminal. As an example, if the 506 was turning back at Lansdowne due to planned construction the vehicles would still indicate they were proceeding to High Park. The logic was that riders would get confused and not board vehicles since they didn't know where they'd end up!

With the current rolling stock there are so many audio announcements that it shouldn't be as much of a problem, though I'm sure some people are just oblivious until they're told to leave.

Of course, the operator needs to adjust the announcements at times. Today there was a 504 streetcar diversion on King west of Yonge. The streetcars still said OFF ROUTE (signs and announcements) east of Yonge when they clearly were NOT off route and hadn't been since, presumably, at least Spadina/Charlotte.