TTC: St. Clair Streetcar Right Of Way

[Streety McCarface]

Do you call an 5-8 car EMU a streetcar that runs on the streets of Michigan City and pickup riders at stops??

I mean, the South Shore Line is technically an Interurban, which isn't even that distant of a relative to the streetcar. It's high floor and about twice as heavy, but operations within urban areas are fairly similar. The Halton interurban, if I recall correctly, ran on Toronto City streets when it was in operation.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Done in a number of places, since bikes are unwelcome, even for BRT. The Green Line in Minneapolis is a good example of a LRT ROW, single lane of road and no bike lanes, especially in the University area.

I stand to be corrected, but none of the 15 cities I visited for the first time in the US this year had bike lanes and the other 8 I have been to before also have no bike lanes. 7 of those cities had streetcars/LRT lines.

LRT/streetcar/Tram lines are all the same, other than what people and politicians want to call them as well the type of equipment. How do you class a 66' streetcar found in places like Dallas, Tucson, Detroit, Cincinnati, Milwaukee that is 70% low floor to A PCC or CLRV to a Flexity or anyone type of a car 100-155' long running as a single, a pair or 3 car long on the street??

Do you call an 5-8 car EMU a streetcar that runs on the streets of Michigan City and pickup riders at stops??

The class of vehicle isn’t important. The reason I mention dedicated ROWs is that these are being built today, by contemporary urban planners knowledgable of the need for bike lanes, usually require the entire road space to be rebuilt and thus give a wide, clean canvas to create new road space. How can it be that every ROW project rejects consideration of dedicated bike lanes?

 

[drum118]

The class of vehicle isn’t important. The reason I mention dedicated ROWs is that these are being built today, by contemporary urban planners knowledgable of the need for bike lanes, usually require the entire road space to be rebuilt and thus give a wide, clean canvas to create new road space. How can it be that every ROW project rejects consideration of dedicated bike lanes?

Lack of room for it and still having parking for cars.

 

[drum118]

I mean, the South Shore Line is technically an Interurban, which isn't even that distant of a relative to the streetcar. It's high floor and about twice as heavy, but operations within urban areas are fairly similar. The Halton interurban, if I recall correctly, ran on Toronto City streets when it was in operation.

I throw that out for laugh as it would never meet the class of streetcar, let along interurban since its a train in the first place. Michigan City is one of many cities and towns where trains still run on the streets, even in the downtown area, We saw this for the first time considering we have driven past the city many times over the years, and something to see.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The class of vehicle isn’t important. The reason I mention dedicated ROWs is that these are being built today, by contemporary urban planners knowledgable of the need for bike lanes, usually require the entire road space to be rebuilt and thus give a wide, clean canvas to create new road space. How can it be that every ROW project rejects consideration of dedicated bike lanes?

Again it is the SUBURBAN automobile-addicted councillors who make the decisions.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Lack of room for it and still having parking for cars.

I drive all over the city. As a family we almost never take transit, instead we park at the Green P near St. Mike's Hospital or Dundas Square. I rarely need on street parking. I say get rid of it.

 

[vic]

Am I right, in that none of the planned and completed ROW routes have dedicated, separated bike lanes?

Yep!!

I was going to say Eglinton....but dammit, they're just making painted bike lanes. Sigh.

 

[drum118]

Here is Minneapolis Green Line In the University area I shot Last month As well Cincinnati and no bike lanes

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I can see the argument that bikes compete with the LRT as a "public transit " option, hence leaving them out and reasoning that the bike riders can ride the LRT. Not saying thats a good reason though.

Even some bike lanes on parallel side streets wod be welcome. But then nimbys.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Did this ever happen?

A look at plans for the Broadway streetcar extension + The case for a 10th Ave cycle track

The most popular road design option for the Broadway extension of the First Hill Streetcar includes an extension of the planned two-way protected bike lane (cycle track) all the way to Aloha, accor…

www.seattlebikeblog.com

But even so, this isn’t a ROW, as the streetcars share their tracks with automobile traffic.

Dammit, hasn’t an urban planner anywhere managed to combine dedicated streetcar ROW and separated bike lanes?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I was going to say Eglinton....but dammit, they're just making painted bike lanes. Sigh.

Painted lines never saved anyone’s life nor stopped automobile intrusion.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In some cities, they got rid of street parking all together. Parking lots or garages have to be used.

From link.

Improve public transit and bicycle lanes & paths, but be sure to put an end to FREE PARKING.

From link.

 

[Admiral Beez]

In some cities, they got rid of street parking all together. Parking lots or garages have to be used.

From link.

That's Australia? It's funny how much it looks like Toronto.

I'm all for getting rid of on-street parking. One challenge is the prevalence of small store front retail we have in Toronto, and where the store owners believe their customers will stop coming if they can't park out front. To be honest, that rings true with me, where if I can't find parking outside your shop, I'll just drive to the Eaton Centre or just buy online. If you look at the above pic from Australia, notice how there's no reason to park on the street, because there's no shops.

If we got rid of all the parking on St. Clair, would the shops rebel? One benefit would be the end of rush hour illegal parking, which I see every morning westbound on St. Clair just west of Yonge, since traffic would be unable to get around you.

 

[W. K. Lis]

That's Australia? It's funny how much it looks like Toronto.

I'm all for getting rid of on-street parking. One challenge is the prevalence of small store front retail we have in Toronto, and where the store owners believe their customers will stop coming if they can't park out front. To be honest, that rings true with me, where if I can't find parking outside your shop, I'll just drive to the Eaton Centre or just buy online. If you look at the above pic from Australia, notice how there's no reason to park on the street, because there's no shops.

If we got rid of all the parking on St. Clair, would the shops rebel? One benefit would be the end of rush hour illegal parking, which I see every morning westbound on St. Clair just west of Yonge, since traffic would be unable to get around you.

Even at shopping mall parking lots, drivers want to park be as close to the entrance as possible. There maybe spaces a little distance, and easier to exit the lot, but fights do break out over the closest parking spot. Same with street parking. They may circle the block looking for a "free" spot that is closest to the store, because we are generally lazy to walk any distance.

 

[sixrings]

That's Australia? It's funny how much it looks like Toronto.

I'm all for getting rid of on-street parking. One challenge is the prevalence of small store front retail we have in Toronto, and where the store owners believe their customers will stop coming if they can't park out front. To be honest, that rings true with me, where if I can't find parking outside your shop, I'll just drive to the Eaton Centre or just buy online. If you look at the above pic from Australia, notice how there's no reason to park on the street, because there's no shops.

If we got rid of all the parking on St. Clair, would the shops rebel? One benefit would be the end of rush hour illegal parking, which I see every morning westbound on St. Clair just west of Yonge, since traffic would be unable to get around you.

I'm sure they would rebel no different then the restaurants on king west. But like we've seen on king west it was good for the city as a whole to ignore the small angry mob. As someone who lives on Eglinton and has access to the stores I would be fully ok with no more parking and instead wider sidewalks and bike lanes. People can park on the side streets and walk to Eglinton. It really isn't that difficult.