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TTC: Scarborough Subway Extension (formerly LRT replacement) (City of Toronto, Design Phase)

syn

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Honestly, can we just get something built? If we can't even build anything, Scarborough will still have nothing, and never will until the leader plugs their ears and gets the paperwork done and gets shovels in the ground
If it wasn't for the political games, Scarborough would have a new line up and running right now.

The current focus could've be on a Sheppard extension with an STC stop, that would intersect with the currently operational LRT.
 

W. K. Lis

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Honestly, can we just get something built? If we can't even build anything, Scarborough will still have nothing, and never will until the leader plugs their ears and gets the paperwork done and gets shovels in the ground
The first "subway" proposed for a Yonge Street Subway emerged between 1909 and 1912. Would not happen until after the Great Depression and World War II with a 1946 referendum and City Council approval. Construction would not start until 1949, and not opening until 1954.

The first planning for a Line 2 extension only started in 1992, as a SRT extension. See link. So we can still wait.
 

Rainforest

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Nope, it's a shitty plan that wastes a staggering amount of money and came about for political reasons, and cost Scarborough a much better and bigger plan, and I would still have them go back now if I could. and yes I live in Scarborough.
Fortunately, you can't make them go back. But, keep dreaming. Once the line opens, tens of thousands of riders will happily use it, but you are free to act on your frustration and stick to bus connections that totally avoid the new SSE stations.
 

salsa

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In contrast, hardly anyone complains about the tunneled Eglinton West, and hardly anyone complained about the tunneled northern section of TYSSE. For both, the ridership is a fraction of SSE's ridership, and yet all the complains are directed to SSE.
This is flat out false and you know it. Having just finished catching up on the Eglinton West talk from the past week, where pretty much everyone right now is complaining about how the tunnel is a waste of money and that the Eglinton lands should have never been sold off to developers. A discussion that has come up countless times before. Similarly for TYSSE, there's been so many posts about how it was wasteful to bore a deep tunnel beneath a bunch of underdeveloped industrial lands, and how stations like 407 in particular are massively oversized and lacking in ridership.

As for SSE, it's more controversial. No matter what proposal was on the table, I have never seen majority agreement in this thread as to what's best for Scarborough, or who's to blame for getting us here in the first place. It's not just about preference for subway or LRT, but there are also vast differences in opinion as to what the route should have been, where the stations should go, how much of it should be above-ground, and how does it fit in with differing development visions for Scarborough Centre as well as the overall transit network (which includes the Sheppard subway - another heated debate). Not to mention the simmering frustration and resentment over the political history, but that too varies significantly depending who you ask.
 
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Rainforest

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This is flat out false and you know it.
My statement is true and you should know that.

Having just finished catching up on the Eglinton West talk from the past week, where pretty much everyone right now is complaining about how the tunnel is a waste of money and that the Eglinton lands should have never been sold off to developers. A discussion that has come up countless times before. Similarly for TYSSE, there's been so many posts about how it was wasteful to bore a deep tunnel beneath a bunch of underdeveloped industrial lands, and how stations like 407 in particular are massively oversized and lacking in ridership.
In this forum, people who have mental issues around SSE always come to this thread to complain, rant, and post caustic remarks. That's my point.

I know that many observers expressed their objections regarding the Eglinton West tunneling, and in the past, regarding TYSSE. But the level of negative passion those projects invite isn't anywhere close to what SSE invites. Despite the ridership projections for SSE being much better. I am stressing out this contradiction.

As for SSE, it's more controversial. No matter what proposal was on the table, I have never seen majority agreement in this thread as to what's best for Scarborough, or who's to blame for getting us here in the first place. It's not just about preference for subway or LRT, but there are also vast differences in opinion as to what the route should have been, where the stations should go, how much of it should be above-ground, and how does it fit in with differing development visions for Scarborough Centre as well as the overall transit network (which includes the Sheppard subway - another heated debate). Not to mention the simmering frustration and resentment over the political history, but that too varies significantly depending who you ask.
I don't disagree with that.
 

Coolstar

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I know that many observers expressed their objections regarding the Eglinton West tunneling, and in the past, regarding TYSSE. But the level of negative passion those projects invite isn't anywhere close to what SSE invites. Despite the ridership projections for SSE being much better. I am stressing out this contradiction.
Don't disagree with that. We should stop complaining and build what we have planned. It's better than nothing right?
 

syn

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"In this forum, people who have mental issues around SSE always come to this thread to complain, rant, and post caustic remarks. That's my point."

Wow. So now those who don't agree with this proposal have "mental issues"?

Very sophisticated.

It's sad this kind of thinking has become the rationale for the SSE. Citing statistics, ridership, other route possibilities, etc. = mental issues.
 

Rainforest

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Obviously, people are free to agree or disagree with any proposal.

But when people come here to whine again and again, playing the same broken record without bringing any new insight, then they should have some unhealthy fixation on this subject.

It is sad that certain SSE opponents again resort to twisting my statements, when they are unable to make reasonable objections on the substance.
 
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LeanMeanMemeMachine

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Don't disagree with that. We should stop complaining and build what we have planned. It's better than nothing right?
My thoughts exactly. You may not like the SSE's route, the fact that it's a subway and not an LRT, or the fact that it's planned to open about a decade later than the original LRT proposal. But at this point, the LRT plan is extremely far out the window, and the current government seems deadset on pushing forward with the subway proposal. As much as we don't like the lack of information on this project (and others, like the Ontario Line or Crosstown West for example) we're getting from Metrolinx, they seem committed to getting this done. And assuming that this project in its current form is completed somewhere around its current planned date, 10 years from now almost none of us will be complaining that it's not an LRT or whatever, but we'll be happy that Scarborough will finally have a fast, reliable rapid transit link that they've been denied for decades.

Also, at least the current plan isn't the one-stop extension the city was pushing before the province took over.
 

44 North

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I know that many observers expressed their objections regarding the Eglinton West tunneling, and in the past, regarding TYSSE. But the level of negative passion those projects invite isn't anywhere close to what SSE invites. Despite the ridership projections for SSE being much better. I am stressing out this contradiction.
Definitely understand your post, and about some of the rhetoric we hear in opposition. But it's a pretty unique situation we have here. It's an active subway line with stations. The bones are almost all there. Buildings, platforms, bus facilities, a corridor. That's not comparable to any other project. And from a planning perspective going into the future Line 3's bones actually do a pretty good job of serving Scarb City Ctr and its precincts. It's an elongate site, and it bisects it evenly (with a corridor set out that could've offered direct service to a large college at its periphery).
 

Rainforest

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And from a planning perspective going into the future Line 3's bones actually do a pretty good job of serving Scarb City Ctr and its precincts. It's an elongate site, and it bisects it evenly (with a corridor set out that could've offered direct service to a large college at its periphery).
That's true, but potentially nothing prevents a local east-west light rail route along that corridor. At grade, not too expensive, with as many stops as one wants, feeding into the subway.
 

sixrings

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That's true, but potentially nothing prevents a local east-west light rail route along that corridor. At grade, not too expensive, with as many stops as one wants, feeding into the subway.
Come on you know after this elephant there won't be a dime left for any Scarborough transit of any sort.
 

syn

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Come on you know after this elephant there won't be a dime left for any Scarborough transit of any sort.
I think it's somewhat unrealistic to expect a $5 billion+ SSE (I think we all know it'll end up costing more than that), an Eglinton East LRT extension and a Sheppard extension.

A Sheppard Line extension with a stop at STC and an LRT extension (or two shorter lines to start) would provide a lot more coverage and handle the ridership in a far more cost effective way.

We have mental issues though, so what do we know? Maybe it's just our meds talking. ;)
 

Rainforest

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Come on you know after this elephant there won't be a dime left for any Scarborough transit of any sort.
There is no such thing as the final round of transit funding.

However, proponents need to have their case prepared.
 
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