innsertnamehere
Superstar
But look at the new coca cola headquarters! There's an example of a location that got a lease, and is much closer to this site than queen richmond center.
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TTC: Queens Quay East BRT (Unofficial proposal)
- Thread starter allabootmatt
- Start date
taal
Senior Member
Again I'm not saying there isn't demand, just that its very limited, lets see if the 500,000 square foot King East center ever gets off the ground.
There's a lot of talk about industry moving from the 905 back to the 416 ... but in reality it really hasn't happened at all less a couple one off cases you can count on one hand (and coca cola was actually moving from the outer 416), rather what has happened is the industries already in the core have grown (namely anything FIRE related) ... or new industry all together, namely many start-up tech / media companies.
If companies in the 905 ever did consider the move, then I could see huge growth, the companies I'm eying are the Canadian headquarters of the large American companies which mainly have their headquarters in Markham or Mississauga ... but I doubt it would ever happen.
There's a lot of talk about industry moving from the 905 back to the 416 ... but in reality it really hasn't happened at all less a couple one off cases you can count on one hand (and coca cola was actually moving from the outer 416), rather what has happened is the industries already in the core have grown (namely anything FIRE related) ... or new industry all together, namely many start-up tech / media companies.
If companies in the 905 ever did consider the move, then I could see huge growth, the companies I'm eying are the Canadian headquarters of the large American companies which mainly have their headquarters in Markham or Mississauga ... but I doubt it would ever happen.
DSC
Superstar
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Not to pop your bubble but the KE Centre - the office tower on King - looks fairly certain to go ahead as the developers (Great Gulf and First Gulf) intend to occupy a large part of it themelves.The second tower - Front and Berkeley - is 100% residential and the third tower (Princess and Front) is not planned for any time soon. That's not to say that office buildings on QQE will succeed in finding tenants but having an LRT to link the area to the subway would certainly help.
taal
Senior Member
Sorry where exactly did you hear:
I haven't heard one peep regarding this and I follow quite a few folks in the commercial real estate business.
FYI, first / great gulf is located at 3751 Victoria Park Ave ... they occupy the whole building which is about 75K. Probably not enough to get a 500K building off the ground but a good start (probably need another tenant).
You're not popping my bubble btw, I'd love to see more of this, but even if this is true I'd chalk it up to the on off cases ... a developer wants to get a building off the ground so they move their offices their, it does show they're confident but this does happen.
I'd love to see a mini-Exodus from the 905 to the great core area !
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I heard it (from a Great or First Gulf person) at a presentation given by the Great & First Gulf. It seemed (and seems) pretty definite to me. I realise that their HQ would not fill the whole of the office tower.
car4041
Active Member
But in this case, capacity isn't even the main factor. BRT would probably be fine for the demand on Queen's Quay East, but the problem is that there's no reliable way for the buses to get from Queen's Quay to Union Station -- Bay and Front are both clogged with traffic and have no space for any form of transit priority. The big advantage of a streetcar is that it can use the tunnel into Union.
nfitz
Superstar
And yet in rush-hour, it's normally quicker to walk from Queens Quay to Union.
car4041
Active Member
I'm not sure what you're getting at. We don't need a transit connection between Queen's Quay and Union because people can just walk it? (OK, I don't think you're saying that, but...?)
What makes the trip through the tunnel slow in rush hour? I'm only there off-peak, when it's a very fast run -- much faster than walking.
nfitz
Superstar
The time you spend parked in the tunnel, waiting to get onto the platform. Now, if they triple the platform space ... and quadruple the number of lines running in (Bremner, Lakeshore West, Lakeshore East ... then it will still be faster to walk.
Is the answer simply to run into a loop at the south entrance to Union Station? Perhaps at the South entrance to the Bay East teamway?
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Having taken the 509/510 to Union every weekday for the past two years, I can say that is not true. Walking has never been faster than the streetcar. My commute now with buses on Queens Quay takes much longer than the streetcar ever did, even when walking from the ACC to Union to avoid traffic at Front/Bay. The lines to walk into Union (TTC) during rush hour are nuts, adding even more time to the commute.
taal
Senior Member
Well I did say ignoring that point recall ?
Yes I agree that in it self is probably argument enough, but once anyone brings up capacity ... that's where I draw the line ... and argue for another 20/30+ years, there will be no problems.
nfitz
Superstar
Taking the streetcar from Queens Quay is faster than walking? Perhaps if you were already on a streetcar, it might work ... but it seems faster to walk from Queens Quay to me, than to go down into the station and wait for a streetcar, that then waits in the tunnel to get to Union.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Waiting for the lights at Lakeshore then Harbour alone take longer than the time the streetcar waits in the tunnel. I've never waited more than a few seconds for the streetcar ahead to pull forward. In the afternoon its a completely different story, but things flow pretty well during the morning rush from my experience.
Maybe on days when the streetcars are delayed it would be faster, but in that case it is also faster for me to walk to Union from Bremner and Spadina than it does to TTC it. I use nextbus religiously so that I always pick the fastest route.
nfitz
Superstar
Never used it in morning rush. I'm there in the afternoons, evenings, or weekends.
Interesting how things can vary so much!
dowlingm
Senior Member
Of course with streetcar service on QQW shut down east of Spadina, it would be an excellent time to be doing works on Union Loop, getting the QQE portal done and the QQ junction between the West and East line done - but instead a future shutdown will have to be endured.