TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Northern Light]

This was my complaint when this happened a few months ago at King Station - POOs standing between the fare gates and the stairs going down to the platforms. It's crowded enough at the station level and them checking people they watched pay to enter simply made things worse. There's a better way to spread these resources out.

If you're going to deploy Fare Enforcement , there is a sense to large numbers, which is to cut off avoidance/evasion while also being able to move quickly.

That said, I'm happy to say I don't think Union is where deployment should be concentrated, nor Bloor/Yonge.

The largest evasion rate occurs on streetcars, the easiest enforcement is on vehicle when its not crowded, or Terminal Stations when it is..............so Main, Dundas West, Broadview, Bathurst etc.

The second biggest source of evasion is at stations, where people enter via the bus driveways. Deployment should logically be on the bus/streetcar platforms there.

Neither Bloor-Yonge nor King has either of these issues. Union has the 509, with the space constraints there, enforcement is severely challenged.

 

[Richard White]

The largest evasion rate occurs on streetcars, the easiest enforcement is on vehicle when its not crowded, or Terminal Stations when it is..............so Main, Dundas West, Broadview, Bathurst etc.

The second biggest source of evasion is at stations, where people enter via the bus driveways. Deployment should logically be on the bus/streetcar platforms there.

I see this at Donlands often. People will walk in off the street via the bus bays to avoid the collector.

As for the streetcars, when I worked at 251 Jarvis it was not uncommon to see people hop on the 505 without paying a fare and ride into Broadview station. When I worked in Corktown, it was the same thing with people hopping on and not paying a fare heading to Broadview station.

Buses are another big one, occassionally when the front doors are blocked operators will open the back doors for people to board. I have seen people avoid tapping and head into the station.

Not to get too far off topic but you are correct. The only way to properly enforce fares is to do so when people disembark at a station. Enforce the fares regardless if it is Jamie Dimon or Billy Bob McCrack Pipe.

 

[Mihairokov]

It's like they do not give a **** about user experience. A system designed and run by lunatics.

I'd say it's more a system designed by people who don't use transit.

 

[nfitz]

At Union station this morning, they had a whole team of POOs checking people's fares right next to the actual fare gates. As in, within eyesight of the actual gates where they can see whether someone has tapped or not, and they asked you to tap your card to prove... what??

This doesn't seem like a very constructive use of a limited resource - it feels a bit like a cashier handing you a receipt and then demanding to look at it to see whether you paid for all your items - but hey, what do I know, bothering people is a highly precise and technical skill. Sure, have one guy around to ticket someone if they jump over or climb under, but if you don't see someone do that, they haven't evaded their fare, and you don't need a whole team of people to verify that.

The unit is fully used for fare enforcement. I don't see any problem with them spending a few hours doing a check at any subway station. It sends a message. And gives them a chance to check those using children's and particularly youth cards are doing the right thing.

I don't think I've seen anyone actually jumping a turnstile (I'm sure it's happened). Normally it's going through the accessible gate right behind someone else, or two people together entering, and only one paying. Or more likely walking through the bus entrance (though not a Union problem!)

There's a lot of whinging here about people not paying fares - and concession cards. I'm surprised there's a reaction to them trying to deal with the problem.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The unit is fully used for fare enforcement. I don't see any problem with them spending a few hours doing a check at any subway station. It sends a message. And gives them a chance to check those using children's and particularly youth cards are doing the right thing.

I don't think I've seen anyone actually jumping a turnstile (I'm sure it's happened). Normally it's going through the accessible gate right behind someone else, or two people together entering, and only one paying. Or more likely walking through the bus entrance (though not a Union problem!)

I have experienced someone rushing the gates right after me to avoid paying.

AoD

 

[zang]

I don't think I've seen anyone actually jumping a turnstile (I'm sure it's happened). Normally it's going through the accessible gate right behind someone else, or two people together entering, and only one paying.

Note that this is the accepted method for entering the gates if one is with children or has a Support Person Assistance Card, regardless of whether there's staff manning a cash farebox.

 

[nfitz]

Note that this is the accepted method for entering the gates if one is with children or has a Support Person Assistance Card, regardless of whether there's staff manning a cash farebox.

Absolutely - but I don't think that's what we were talking about.

I gave up though when the 4-year old started to think it was fun, after the beep, to run through the gates, so they closed before I got through, and got them their own Presto card.

 

[drum118]

I see this at Donlands often. People will walk in off the street via the bus bays to avoid the collector.

As for the streetcars, when I worked at 251 Jarvis it was not uncommon to see people hop on the 505 without paying a fare and ride into Broadview station. When I worked in Corktown, it was the same thing with people hopping on and not paying a fare heading to Broadview station.

Buses are another big one, occassionally when the front doors are blocked operators will open the back doors for people to board. I have seen people avoid tapping and head into the station.

Not to get too far off topic but you are correct. The only way to properly enforce fares is to do so when people disembark at a station. Enforce the fares regardless if it is Jamie Dimon or Billy Bob McCrack Pipe.

I have seen the thing system wide. In some cases some of those riders have gotten on from the subway with a paper transfer or a bus transfer as I have seen some of those riders pull out that transfer when requested to show proof of payment outside the subway system.

510 is a good route to see the non payment riders going a few stops and some to the subway let along other routes.

 

[T3G]

The unit is fully used for fare enforcement. I don't see any problem with them spending a few hours doing a check at any subway station. It sends a message. And gives them a chance to check those using children's and particularly youth cards are doing the right thing.

There are far more productive areas they could deploy them in. Streetcars and non revenue station entrances would surely net more profit than checking the person they just saw tapping.

There's a lot of whinging here about people not paying fares - and concession cards. I'm surprised there's a reaction to them trying to deal with the problem.

I venture the people complaining are probably not the same. I've never complained about fare evasion - on the other hand, I mind very much when people who are abrupt and discourteous interrupt my day. Every time I travel on a long distance train in Europe the fare checkers are courteous and friendly, but the local transit minions are anything but. You can see I tapped my card and that it didn't make a child card sound, move along.

 

[dowlingm]

Rather than having to worry about fare enforcement, Rogers could have written the TTC and Metrolinx big enough cheques to allow for free fares that night.

 

[nfitz]

There are far more productive areas they could deploy them in. Streetcars and non revenue station entrances would surely net more profit than checking the person they just saw tapping.

If that's the only place they are. But I see them varying locations.

How many days have they been at Union?

You can see I tapped my card and that it didn't make a child card sound, move along.

The Union turnstiles are so busy, I don't know they'd here the sound and match it to the person, while checking someone else.

When I've seen them at a busy point, they don't just can't check everyone with only 3 or 4 inspectors (though I haven't seen them at such a point for a while). I simply hold up my PrestoCard, and don't stop walking, while many just stop. I've never had them call me back. How many did they have at Union?

Certainly on streetcars, once they've checked everyone, they see who is boarding, and who has tapped, and don't bother to check them again.

 

[Mihairokov]

Rather than having to worry about fare enforcement, Rogers could have written the TTC and Metrolinx big enough cheques to allow for free fares that night.

Rogers had already made their money by the time Game 7 was over. No real incentive beyond that, as bleak as that may be.

 

[Richard White]

One area that should also be enforced is transfer validity.

I have seen people who use a transfer as a Metro Pass. They keep the same transfer in their pocket for days and flash it to drivers who are indifferent.

If people were to actually inquire about the validity of transfers, I can guarantee you there would be dozens if not more people fined.

 

[81-717]

Hypothetically, if someone brings an AK-47 into Yonge and Bloor at rush-hour I would not want to be out in the open.

I certainly wouldn't wanna be among the crowd (especially in an enclosed space) either. In fact I'd rather avoid any crowded places/events at all cost just in case something like this does happen.

 

[nfitz]

One area that should also be enforced is transfer validity.

I've certainly heard the fare inspectors on streetcars interrogating and reading the riot act to those with bizarre transfers.