zang
Senior Member
FFS, not this again. Kids riding free are no big strain on the system, and in fact encourage more paying fares. I get it, some people don't like kids getting to ride free.
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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Richard White
Senior Member
The TTC is stupid enough to do this while increasing service on other routes even though they are crying poor.
Look, we need to raise fares and get rid of some concessions. Kids should not ride free, discounted fares I agree with but not free.
Now.. having said that there is a cost to run the system. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, we need to jack up the fares to 5 bucks a person while showing meaningful improvements.
If you jack up the fares and keep service levels the same or worse, people will be upset but if people see more vehicles on the road and more frequent trains they will be less upset over it. You need to justify any fare increases but if you can, people are likely to stomach it better.
As well, you can play it off as having to do it because the provincial government won't subsidize the operating costs.
zang
Senior Member
Look, we need to stop being one of the least subsidized major transit systems on the planet.
People will be upset at ANY fare raise of $1.50+, regardless of whether it comes with bonuses. You can see that, right?
And the province will simply do something insane, like block fare increases.
T3G
Senior Member
This is a made up choice, capital cost money can't be used to cover deficits in the operational budget.
But if it was possible, if it was as simple as shuffling money around, it's fascinating to see where your priorities lie. If there is no money for operational costs, you would receive new trains and then be unable to run them. You have to first have the means to pay your rent and utilities before you replace your roof.
Also, why should standard edults be exempt from fare increases? Other than the fact that you belong to that group and want to see other people pick up the tab only.
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81-717
Active Member
And if there's no money neither for new trains nor to run existing trains, they could just shut the line(s) down & scrap them without replacement, lol. Consider yourself lucky they're not shuffling money around at the expense of keeping a historical fleet
Because adult fares are already the highest compared to senior/student let alone child fares, obviously, so increasing the latter while keeping them reduced compared to adult fares is only fair and would even things out, rather than adult fares having to pick up the tab. If fare increases apply to senior/student fares too, then fair enough, I was primarily referring to legal free rides.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
Everyone should pay the same fare. If a senior or a minor go to the supermarket they pay the same price. Why is transit different? The senior prices on restaurant menus bug me too, since Boomers are amongst the richest Canadians of all time.
T3G
Senior Member
Did you miss that everything except for the one GM was sent to Halton?Consider yourself lucky they're not shuffling money around at the expense of keeping a historical fleet
If you still genuinely think that they're going to be coming back when the Hillcrest construction, then I don't know what to tell you. It was easy to sink the costs of transporting them into the capital cost of redoing Hillcrest, but there will be no such budget when the project is wrapped up. Then, if they come back, you can lord it over me.
I assume that a fare increase will affect all groups. But the TTC would be dumb to not collect more money from their biggest and most financially solvent group of riders.
N.B. as far as I know, student discounts only apply to those who purchase passes. If you're one of those silly buggers who don't ride the TTC enough to make buying a pass financially justifiable, you pay full price.
81-717
Active Member
I don't care if they get sent to Australia or wherever, it has no effect on the historical fleet's existence, even if someone else picks up the tab for the TTC.
Post-secondary, yes. As for secondary students (up to and including age 19), discounts apply regardless of fare type. And having checked the TTC website, turns out senior & student fares aren't quite the same thing either, and senior fare is 10 cents cheaper still.
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Northern Light
Superstar
Kids riding free encourages fare evasion by teens.
They are in the habit of not paying, its difficult to break.
The age at which payment is supposed to begin, is one difficult to distinguish from the age when one is free, and neither age (12/13) is required to, or likely to carry photo ID.
12 and under is free is cost in-efficient, and since it goes equally to the rich as to lower income folks its not redistributive.
2/3 and under is free is fine, if you're in a stroller on a parent's lap.
Otherwise eliminating age concession of all types is ideal (the savings can be used to lower adult fares if desired)
It results in lower fare evasion, greater enforcement, and is much cheaper to administer.
Its hardly the only change the TTC requires, but it would be a good one.
Northern Light
Superstar
APTA-2048
Senior Member
I’m glad you said this. Talk to any operator and this is exactly why they hate this initiative.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
We're almost duplicating the crisis that Philadelphia's SEPTA is facing. Dated September 20, 2024.
Dated September 6, 2025...
See https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/09/20/doom-loop-alert-transit-systems-are-suffering-and-too-many-are-cutting-service
Dated September 6, 2025...
Full SEPTA service to be restored Sept. 14, if state approves agency’s request to dip into maintenance funds
A roughly 21% fare hike will also go into effect that day.
See https://whyy.org/articles/septa-service-restored-september-14-maintenance-funding/Northern Light
Superstar
I had a discussion with TTC Special Constables recently on this point. They were adamant that it made enforcement much more challenging.
nstuch
Active Member
you have to get a student Presto card by taking the child's ID to Shoppers when you buy a card to validate their age. Then, when they tap it's at the student rate instead of adult.
Northern Light
Superstar
There is no crisis.
Don't believe everything you read.
There is 'budget pressure' every single year w/o exception.
Its always an exaggerated number; its based on a zero tax increase, a zero fare increase, and typically, high-ish estimates for volatiles costs like fuel (this is reasonable, as you wouldn't want to be short of money for this).
But there is no cliff. Just choices.