TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Admiral Beez]

Just heard the victim‘s mother on CBC radio. Damn. If our even our children are not safe on the TTC, what good is it?

The latest subway slasher is Jordan O’Brien-Tobin. I assume he’ll be NCR’d.

 

[Undead]

How do you pronounce it? Is it TeeMoo or TheMoo like my kids say, or the more posh MetYu.

Rye High.

 

[mossynukes]

Hey, does anyone know when we should be getting our new 5 year service plan/ 10 year outlook?

 

[Admiral Beez]

The media is reporting a rumour that the Keele St. stabber was recently released after being institutionalized in an asylum or prison for prior violent acts.

HUNTER: Suspect accused of subway slaying out on release, says source

Law enforcement sources say the homeless man accused in the random murder of a Toronto teen on the TTC was "out on about 20 releases".

torontosun.com

If this is true the family should sue everyone.

 

[dusk]

The media is reporting a rumour that the Keele St. stabber was recently released after being institutionalized in an asylum or prison for prior violent acts.

HUNTER: Suspect accused of subway slaying out on release, says source

Law enforcement sources say the homeless man accused in the random murder of a Toronto teen on the TTC was "out on about 20 releases".

torontosun.com

If this is true the family should sue everyone.

We seem to struggle with the idea that some people don’t belong in everyday society and need care and institutionalization.

 

[Sunnyside]

Thanks for the link. I didn't scroll back to the previous page.

However, I do consider it coddling. We are letting people get murdered on the biggest public transit system in Canada. I understand that you disagree with that and that's fair enough.

Not to drag it out, but your describing complacency and apathy. So, not really coddling in the direct sense. But by ignoring the issues of homeless, we are “coddling” them by not doing anything about it- it says to the public, “this is ok” (reality or not).

Perhaps it’s because we don’t want to be on the wrong side of homeless treatment despite the issues it’s causing. A sort of ‘spoiled child’ dynamic where they are seen to be enabled because there are no societal repercussions. The current/not so distant political perspective of “help” rather than “fix” paired with little money or willpower to actually improve things has created ignorance to the public’s basic desire for [some] order. If people think more hardline action is needed but is being deliberately avoided, then “coddling” certainly makes more sense as a description.

This is not entirely my own opinion. This issue will reach a breaking point and the outcome will be unsavoury. Conversations on SSP and here have gone on and on about these things, boiling down to desires for order and safety being more important than maintaining respect/dignity for the homeless- it is valued to be sure, but not at the expense of making things tangibly better.

 

[Northern Light]

We seem to struggle with the idea that some people don’t belong in everyday society and need care and institutionalization.

This has come up in BC with the premier there (NDP) mooting that compulsory care needs to be considered. He is, of course, taking it on the chin from certain corners for such audacity and has waffled a bit since. But I'm told that the Ministry in BC is drafting up options that would begin some measure of re-institutionalization; whether they are implemented is TBD.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/david-eby-involuntary-treatment-criticism-1.6664848

 

[Steve X]

The media is reporting a rumour that the Keele St. stabber was recently released after being institutionalized in an asylum or prison for prior violent acts.

HUNTER: Suspect accused of subway slaying out on release, says source

Law enforcement sources say the homeless man accused in the random murder of a Toronto teen on the TTC was "out on about 20 releases".

torontosun.com

If this is true the family should sue everyone.

There will still be people who defend him and other criminals on bail or conditional releases. They just never had a loved one murdered.

 

[Admiral Beez]

There will still be people who defend him and other criminals on bail or conditional releases. They just never had a loved one murdered.

This is the second NCR murder in the High Park area, which is very unusual. I can only assume that a new shelter has opened up. If we're worried about being attacked we need to find the nest and make sure they're doing what they can to protect the community. Perhaps it's Savard's?

 

[Northern Light]

There will still be people who defend him and other criminals on bail or conditional releases. They just never had a loved one murdered.

This is a bizarre comment.

Who is 'defending' someone who committed a murder? I count zero such people. Are there people defending the idea that you neither can, nor should jail people pre-emptively who have not been convicted of a crime without extraordinary cause and evidence? Sure. I'm one of them. I have no idea whether that applies in this case, as I have yet to see the evidence of what form of 'release' this person may have been on and will reserve judgement until I see it.

But the principle of innocent til proven guilty does matter, at least to me.

In respect of mental illness I believe we do need more long-term institutionalization of varying degrees (from fully secure to supportive housing in the community). I think the majority of people are there. Of course, putting aside that no statutory/regulatory regime will ever be perfect, one again, cannot and should not institutionalize, in a secure way (prison by any other name) someone who has yet to be seriously violent, or who had a one-off episode that medical professionals are confident they can and have addressed

Once again, we don't know what may apply to the circumstances of this case, and vague hearsay from 'The Sun' is not sufficient information on which to pass a thoughtful judgement.

No one wants murderers roaming the streets; it seems to be clear enough though this fellow had never committed one before; so he wasn't a murderer at the time of any release he may have been granted.
Was that release unwise in hindsight? Probably; but until we know the details of what options any judge or medical professional had before them and what evidence, its difficult to draw a definitive conclusion.

Edit to add: Do you know whose calling for more support for the mentally ill? The woman who just lost her child to murder at Keele Station: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...ew-ttc-fatal-stabbing-as-it-happens-1.6792936

 

[Towered]

We should look at the world's least violent societies and analyze exactly what it is they are doing to cultivate such conditions for inspiration.

 

[W. K. Lis]

We should look at the world's least violent societies and analyze exactly what it is they are doing to cultivate such conditions for inspiration.

From link.

Top 20 Safest Countries in the World (2022 Global Peace Index — lower is better):​

1. Iceland — 1.107
2. New Zealand — 1.269
3. Ireland — 1.288
4. Denmark — 1.296
5. Austria — 1.300
6. Portugal — 1.301
7. Slovenia — 1.316
8. Czech Republic — 1.318
9. Singapore — 1.326
10. Japan — 1.336
11. Switzerland — 1.357
12. Canada — 1.389
13. Hungary — 1.411
14. Finland — 1.439
15. Croatia — 1.440
16. Germany — 1.462
17. Norway — 1.465
18. Malaysia — 1.471
19. Bhutan — 1.481
20. Slovakia — 1.499

The United States ranked 129th in the Global Peace Ranking for 2022.

 

[Northern Light]

We should look at the world's least violent societies and analyze exactly what it is they are doing to cultivate such conditions for inspiration.

Not difficult to come up with a list using the Homicide rate as the proxy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate (sort by rate, lowest being best)

Walter's list above isn't good for this as it mixes in 23 different things many of which have nothing to do with criminal violence.

Having said that, Simply reprinting homicide rates w/o some context isn't helpful.

Myanmar nominally has a very low homicide rate. I'm not sure I trust their statistics, and I don't think they include all the people the ruling regime kills every year.........sooo...

With that......

If one doesn't factor for population size to any great degree but looks for a 'western' country whose population is measured in the millions, low homicide rates in the 0.5 range can be found in
Norway, Netherlands, and Switzerland

While more populous examples would include Spain, Italy and Australia with homicide rates below 1.0 or a bit less than 1/2 what we see in Canada.

The details will vary by country and we could look at each in some detail; but broadly, a lower prevalence of handguns and a more robust welfare state are commonly present.

 

[44 North]

Anyone else carry a knife and pepper spray when they take the subway?

 

[Richard White]

Anyone else carry a knife and pepper spray when they take the subway?

Uhhh..

Why are you admitting to doing something illegal on a public forum?